Past winters discussion

[Evening thunder]

The Met-O published Snow Survey reports from 1951 to 1993, just make sure you don't mind losing a few hours of your life once you get sucked into reading them all

 

http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/learning/library/archive-hidden-treasures/snow-survey

 

Interesting link there, had a browse of 63 and looks like the SW had some notable blizzards (though I knew that really, with my parents having told me of drifts up to the roofs..). It says that at the end of December helicopters were used to help trapped people in North Devon where conditions were already comparable with 1947.

Speaking of 47' an uncle who lives in the Blackdown Hills says he remembers snow to the top of telegraph poles (am presuming drifts but still..)

 

Does anyone know if there's ever been more than 3ft at lower levels?

 

 

According to the above mentioned snow survey Tredegar, South Wales reported a level snow depth of 65 inches on the 7th and 8th February, decreasing to 40 inches on the 10th (although looking at Google Maps that's around 300-400m asl)

There are also reports of 6ft in 15 hours in the Dart Valley in SE Dartmoor in 1929 (A record for the UK in a day), though I think it's not clear how legitimate this is.. 

 

See the last paragraph of post #34 on this page for some info from Phillip Eden http://www.weather-banter.co.uk/uk-sci-weather-uk-weather/89828-boltshope-park-snow-4.html

The detail of March 1891 sounds impressive too.. and the post also suggests that 4ft reported on the west of the Isle of Wight is generally regarded as legit.

 

I would love to experience one of those blizzards.. Although I had 25cm+ of snow in December 2010 (which I may post in here about) it sounds like nothing in comparison of these rare blizzards leaving drifts to house roof level.

 

I've never experienced a proper blizzard (just temporary blizzard like conditions in showers). 

Edited November 23, 2015 by Evening thunder

[Nouska]

Interesting link there, had a browse of 63 and looks like the SW had some notable blizzards (though I knew that really, with my parents having told me of drifts up to the roofs..). It says that at the end of December helicopters were used to help trapped people in North Devon where conditions were already comparable with 1947.

 

The IMO have the precipitation on their archived charts if anybody is interested in loading up the sequence for the month.

 

http://brunnur.vedur.is/kort/ra/1962/196212/jra-55_nat_msl_t850_tp.html

[Guest]

why is frezzing rain so rare in uk

 

I'm not sure that freezing rain is that rare in the UK, we simply don't get the huge ice storms that they get in the US & Canada. Ask any of the regulars in the Scottish thread about my little early morning breakdown on Xmas Day 2010 when it rained at -5ºC

[Midlands Ice Age]

I was around in 1947, and my earliest memories were of snows over the hedgerows! Explains my addiction and name today..

 

I was in west Lincolnshire/ North Notts border and we had drifts to the top of the door-jambs.

 

I remember helping my farther clear the drifts!!..... Yes I was helpful even then!!!

 

My other memories (being 3 years old!)

 

1) was of being the rider of tobagganons in Tobaggon races down the local hills!!! (Still got the scars on my knees.).

2) Enforced by all the 'big' school children of the village who were at home due to all the roads out of the village being blocked and therefore schools closed.....

3) I was the 'baby' of the only village shop/ post office in the village and can remember the queues when my father decided to go find some food to sell. He took some friends with him and it took them 1 complete day to get to the main road to drive into the nearest town. (it was just 3 miles to the main road.) The next day we were cut off again as the next easterly blizzard moved in!!.

 

1962-3       I  remember mainly the cold which carried on for 2.5 months. I had a north facing bedroom and I cannot remember seeing out of it, for the first 6 weeks of the spell thanks to ice both on the inside and outside!. Not nearly as much snow though.

We were tough in those days though and just put more and more coats on the beds at night..

 

However I do remember the lead up to the cold spell..  (which may be of some interest to some this year????)

 

It started with alternating outbreaks of cold and mild from October onwards. I have since seen charts  showing depressions moving quickly through the north of the B.I, with a tendency for a mid  level blocking from Europe in between.

 

Then (although still with alternating weather),  we had the highs gradually ocuring further  north and one even started regression out into the Atlantic. But no further north than Scotland.

 

Then finally we had a cold front moving south after the last depression and a blocking high 'developed' to the west of Northern Ireland.

 

This was a cold high. We went into 3 -4 days of continual frost with persistent fog. Weekend before Xmas, I think. The high persisted during the break and then started to move north east to join up with the Russian high over Scandi.

 

It was very cold and  then after a few days the Atlantic lows started to approach from the south west with widespread but not desperately heavy snows (at least not in the north)..

 

This snow remained on the ground for months! 

 

1947 - although a late starter- (mid jan) was for me much more memorable for the actual weather.

 

Lots hope for a mixture of the two this year!!! :D

 

MIA

 

Well I have just received my tax free winter fuel allowance...

Edited November 23, 2015 by Midlands Ice Age

[Methuselah]

I'm not sure that freezing rain is that rare in the UK, we simply don't get the huge ice storms that they get in the US & Canada. Ask any of the regulars in the Scottish thread about my little early morning breakdown on Xmas Day 2010 when it rained at -5ºC

My guess would be that we are a much smaller land mass - we don't get inversions that are 2000 miles' long?

[Snowyowl9]

why is frezzing rain so rare in uk

Rain with frozen surfaces we had that a revival in the late 00`s or whenever it was and there was some freezing rain.

Not something you`d want to see like what they had in the US with ice storms,1947 did that here as I`ve been told many times far more damaging than any snow.

Edited November 23, 2015 by Snowyowl9

[StretfordEnd1996]

Can anyone tell me a few years where they have seen a cold snap this early before?
 

I have had a little bit of a think but I cannot remember many years really. 

 

2008 of course had something in October;

2005; the cold snap arrived a little later around 25th/26th ... as it did in 2010. 

 

I seem to recall recording a very early cold snap in November 2001, cannot remember any details though at all really, except it did happen very early on? 

To be fair, the northerly snap we have just experienced really did take me by complete surprise.

[Terminal Moraine]

Can anyone tell me a few years where they have seen a cold snap this early before?

 

I have had a little bit of a think but I cannot remember many years really. 

 

2008 of course had something in October;

2005; the cold snap arrived a little later around 25th/26th ... as it did in 2010. 

 

I seem to recall recording a very early cold snap in November 2001, cannot remember any details though at all really, except it did happen very early on? 

To be fair, the northerly snap we have just experienced really did take me by complete surprise.

1965 springs to mind. There was a short but severe cold snap from the 14th-17th with maxima below 0c for a couple of days and much more snow than we've just had. It was followed by another cold and quite snowy spell late in the month.

There was a two day cold and snowy spell on the 16th and 17th in 1969 too. 

 

Edit; I've had a look back through the records and in addition to the above the following Novembers all had cold and snowy spells around this time of year.

1979 13th/14th

1985 10th-13th

1988 20th-23rd

1993 21st-24th

1996 19th-24th ( 30cm of snow here on the 19th)

Edited November 24, 2015 by Terminal Moraine

[cheeky_monkey]

Can anyone tell me a few years where they have seen a cold snap this early before?

 

I have had a little bit of a think but I cannot remember many years really. 

 

2008 of course had something in October;

2005; the cold snap arrived a little later around 25th/26th ... as it did in 2010. 

 

I seem to recall recording a very early cold snap in November 2001, cannot remember any details though at all really, except it did happen very early on? 

To be fair, the northerly snap we have just experienced really did take me by complete surprise.

1980 and 1985 I think? both had cold and snow earlier in the month..1980 I think was in the first week.

Edited November 24, 2015 by cheeky_monkey

[I remember Atlantic 252]

Can anyone tell me a few years where they have seen a cold snap this early before?

 

I have had a little bit of a think but I cannot remember many years really. 

 

2008 of course had something in October;

2005; the cold snap arrived a little later around 25th/26th ... as it did in 2010. 

 

I seem to recall recording a very early cold snap in November 2001, cannot remember any details though at all really, except it did happen very early on? 

To be fair, the northerly snap we have just experienced really did take me by complete surprise.

 

8th Nov 2001, toppler Thursday, few flurries here in low level south

[Frank Trough]

Can anyone tell me a few years where they have seen a cold snap this early before?

 

I have had a little bit of a think but I cannot remember many years really. 

 

2008 of course had something in October;

2005; the cold snap arrived a little later around 25th/26th ... as it did in 2010. 

 

I seem to recall recording a very early cold snap in November 2001, cannot remember any details though at all really, except it did happen very early on? 

To be fair, the northerly snap we have just experienced really did take me by complete surprise.

 

1988 had one around this time, didn't it?

[Evening thunder]

The IMO have the precipitation on their archived charts if anybody is interested in loading up the sequence for the month.

 

http://brunnur.vedur.is/kort/ra/1962/196212/jra-55_nat_msl_t850_tp.html

 

Thanks for that, certainly interesting.

 

1965 springs to mind. There was a short but severe cold snap from the 14th-17th with maxima below 0c for a couple of days and much more snow than we've just had. It was followed by another cold and quite snowy spell late in the month.

There was a two day cold and snowy spell on the 16th and 17th in 1969 too. 

 

Edit; I've had a look back through the records and in addition to the above the following Novembers all had cold and snowy spells around this time of year.

1979 13th/14th

1985 10th-13th

1988 20th-23rd

1993 21st-24th

1996 19th-24th ( 30cm of snow here on the 19th)

 

Hmm I just hope this winter doesn't follow what 1988/9 did down here.. pretty much the definition of a boring winter (but based on this year/Autumn I'm not getting good vibes) 

[Terminal Moraine]

Thanks for that, certainly interesting.

 

 

Hmm I just hope this winter doesn't follow what 1988/9 did down here.. pretty much the definition of a boring winter (but based on this year/Autumn I'm not getting good vibes) 

Yes, agree with you on that.

It was much the same here with January 1989 being the only January in my 50 odd years of records with no lying snow at all, in fact there wasn't even any falling snow, just one day with sleet.

February fared a bit better though with 5 days with lying snow at 0900 and a fall of 13cm on the 24th.

[I remember Atlantic 252]

had a look through archives of Jan '89, looks okay to me (south) lot of high pressure around, looks like quite a few dry days which are a rarity for Jan

 

wouldn't say no to another Jan '89, yes no snow but rarely is here anyway

[BlueHedgehog074]

Normally, most Winter's, would say the Midlands, at least, gets some snow, even for low level areas. Though it would be fair to say, the further North in the region and the higher up you are, generally, the chances of snow are quite a fair bit better. That 1998/99 Winter and the 2013/14 ones, however, were certainly rather bad for that white stuff. If I remember, the first snow didn't fall here until around mid-February of that 1998/99 Winter (or at least it was the first snowfall I witnessed that Winter), though I think there was that cold and wintry spell/snap during November 1998 - a cold spell of which I don't remember happening, but one that has been mentioned on this site a few times in the past. Was probably just too young to notice November 1998's cold spell. However, certainly can't recall there being any wintry weather that month, unless I missed it or it didn't affect this part of the UK.

[Mark Neal.]

The IMO have the precipitation on their archived charts if anybody is interested in loading up the sequence for the month.

 

http://brunnur.vedur.is/kort/ra/1962/196212/jra-55_nat_msl_t850_tp.html

Thats very useful enjoying looking at January 5th and December 18th 2010 on that!

[damianslaw]

Yes, agree with you on that.

It was much the same here with January 1989 being the only January in my 50 odd years of records with no lying snow at all, in fact there wasn't even any falling snow, just one day with sleet.

February fared a bit better though with 5 days with lying snow at 0900 and a fall of 13cm on the 24th.

 

 

Remember the snow starved late 80's well, being just the right age to make the most of the snow, alas we had very little from memory 1987/88-1989/90 nor any real cold weather neither. 1990/91 was preety decent, but was followed by yet 2 woeful winters for snowfall, a very barren period indeed, can't remember once being sent home from school apart from the 8 Feb 91 I think (the half term coincided with the cold spell which was good).

 

The late 90's / early 00's winters followed uncannily a very similar pattern, with 00/01 the pick of the bunch for snow and cold, but little overall in the main.

 

I hope we are not back on similar territory now, there has been a propensity for fairly snowless winters to come in 3's...

 

1973/74-75/76

1987/88-89/90

1997/98-99/00

01/02-03/04 (not too bad but nothing special)

05/06-07/08

2013/14-15/16?

 

Likewise snowy coldish winters have often come in 2's sometimes 3's.. even 4's

 

76/77-78/79

83/84-85/86 add 86/87 and you have 4

95/95-96/97

08/09-10/11

 

 

Just an observation.

[Weather-history]

If I remember, the first snow didn't fall here until around mid-February of that 1998/99 Winter (or at least it was the first snowfall I witnessed that Winter),

Don't remember the frontal snowfalls of January 1999?

[I remember Atlantic 252]

must have been the usual off frontal snow from the Atlantic, too low, too south and too west

[Evening thunder]

Yes, agree with you on that.

It was much the same here with January 1989 being the only January in my 50 odd years of records with no lying snow at all, in fact there wasn't even any falling snow, just one day with sleet.

February fared a bit better though with 5 days with lying snow at 0900 and a fall of 13cm on the 24th.

 

Interesting, I wasn't alive then but looking at the stats it was also very dry down here (apart from the last week of Feb when low pressure brought the kitchen sink apparently). Otherwise no snow, little frost, strong winds, or heavy rain. Basically looks quite 'weather-less'. Looking at the charts I wouldn't be surprised if sunshine wasn't particularly impressive either (a bit like November so far).

 

I appreciate that such weather may be more pleasant and better for some than more 'active' types, but to be fair that is not what caused my interest in weather.

[BlueHedgehog074]

Don't remember the frontal snowfalls of January 1999?

Nah, don't seem to remember that one at all, sadly. Looks like an interesting snow event, though, particularly for Northern areas. Having watched that top YouTube video, did appear that snow would have fallen as far South as the Midlands. Must have been busy doing something that day/night when the snow came, otherwise I can only guess that perhaps it may have ended up being a little too warm here for snow in the end.

I know when I was younger, wasn't as observant with the weather as I am now, so definitely quite possible I've missed out on some important snow events here in the past.

[Thundery wintry showers]

Just wondering, when you say 1998/99, do you mean 1988/89?   The earlier posts had been discussing 1988/89, which had a notable cold snap with snow for many (but not all) on 20 November, and then no snow at all until late-February, with a persistent Bartlett/Euro high.  

 

November 1998 was quite chilly for most but there were no widespread snow events, with the very cold air staying out in the continent, where Moscow had an exceptionally cold month.  The winter of 1998/99 was generally mild and less snowy than normal away from northern Scotland and some eastern coastal parts of England, but it wasn't up there with 1988/89.  As well as 11/12 January there was also widespread snow on 8/9 February, and parts of the north were also affected on 5, 20/21 and 28 December, 15 January, and 21 February.

Edited November 25, 2015 by Thundery wintry showers

[BlueHedgehog074]

Pretty sure it was the 1998/99 Winter I was thinking of (though there are perhaps aspects of that Winter I didn't remember correctly, such as not realising there was a snowfall in January 1999 - the one that Weather-History brought up). I think I might have also been mixing up the cold spell that I thought was in November 1998 for the one you talked about in November 1988. Would have been too young to have remembered that, however, as it was the year the red line was born.

[cheeky_monkey]

Just wondering, when you say 1998/99, do you mean 1988/89?   The earlier posts had been discussing 1988/89, which had a notable cold snap with snow for many (but not all) on 20 November, and then no snow at all until late-February, with a persistent Bartlett/Euro high.  

 

November 1998 was quite chilly for most but there were no widespread snow events, with the very cold air staying out in the continent, where Moscow had an exceptionally cold month.  The winter of 1998/99 was generally mild and less snowy than normal away from northern Scotland and some eastern coastal parts of England, but it wasn't up there with 1988/89.  As well as 11/12 January there was also widespread snow on 8/9 February, and parts of the north were also affected on 5, 20/21 and 28 December, 15 January, and 21 February.

i have some lovely photos of that February'99 snow fall taken on the old polaroid instamatic camera..remember those?

[damianslaw]

Winter 98/99 wasn't particularly memorable, apart from the Boxing Day storm that hit the north, similar in strength to the  97 Christmas Eve storm, 2 very stormy wet Christmas periods on the trot, on the back of  2 freezing Christmas periods in 95 and 96..

 

Early Dec 98 brought a short sharp arctic blast, I was living in Newcastle at the time and remember a decent snowfall on Sat eve I think it was the 6th, a couple of inches or so, however, it disappeared quickly. The rest of the month was fairly standard apart as I say for the stormy Christmas period. Seem to recall some transient snowfall just before and after Christmas on the 21 and 28 but nothing much.

 

Jan 99 was atlantic dominated in the main, with a fair bit of snow on northern high ground, I do remember the frontal snowfall being very transient and wet in nature and not really sticking to low ground, but the fells got a decent covering. The month as a whole was very mild though.

 

Feb 99 was more mixed with a good 4-5 day cold spell early on with some snow, nothing particularly heavy or troublesome, but some decent frosts and cold sunny days thanks to an arctic blast, the rest of the month was mild though.

 

Overall a disappointing winter for cold snow lovers, but not as abysmal as the winter that it preceded, and also a bit better than 99/00 (Dec 99 though was quite good in the north).