Are The Seasons Distributed Correctly?

[leicsnow]

The winter and summer solstices are several weeks before the middle of the seasons, and due to seasonal lag the seasons in the UK are meteorologically defined as being:

December, January and February - Winter

March, April and May - Spring

June, July and August - Summer

September, October and November - Autumn

However, in many cases March, a spring month is colder than December. In others, September is warmer than June!

There has been talk on this forum before about how March should replace December as a winter month.

Do you think the seasons are distributed correctly? If not, how do you think they should be distributed?

Just curious.

(I hope I started this in the right place!)

[frogesque]

It's always going to be a bit arbitrary, especially in the UK. To me the frogs decide when it's spring and the swallows decide when it's Autumn. :lol:

[Aaron]

Having 3 months for each season is easier..

[leicsnow]

Having 3 months for each season is easier..

Yes but should they be moved one month forward? Or back?

[Alex95]

The UK seems to have a perpetual autumn anyway so it's a moot point

Seriously, though, I think they're fine as it is due to the combination of length of daylight and temperature which is taken into account by them.

Edited February 1, 2012 by alza

[A Winter's Tale]

The winter and summer solstices are several weeks before the middle of the seasons, and due to seasonal lag the seasons in the UK are meteorologically defined as being:

December, January and February - Winter

March, April and May - Spring

June, July and August - Summer

September, October and November - Autumn

However, in many cases March, a spring month is colder than December. In others, September is warmer than June!

There has been talk on this forum before about how March should replace December as a winter month.

Do you think the seasons are distributed correctly? If not, how do you think they should be distributed?

Just curious.

(I hope I started this in the right place!)

They are fine as they are and it isn't a big deal.

If they were to be changed then it would be this:

Spring:

March 15th to May 15th.

Summer:

May 15th to September 15th.

Autumn:

September 15th to November 15th.

Winter:

November 15th to March 15th.

Summer is extended due to the period generally being sunny and warm and summery.

Winter is extended due to the period generally being dark, cold and wintry.

Spring is shortened to encapsulate the period of transition from winter to summer and the period of Spring flowers and the most typical Spring weather.

Autumn is shortened to encapsulate the period of transition from summer to winter and the period of typical Autumn weather.

i.e The new Summer is the time where you get the hottest weather, the new winter is where you get the coldest and snowiest weather, the new Autumn and Spring is the time where there isn't much in the way of hot or cold weather.

[MP-R]

I think seasons should go as follows:

Spring: March 21st - May 21st

Summer: May 21st - September 21st

Autumn: September 21st - December 21st

Winter: December 21st - March 21st

[Aaron]

Yes but should they be moved one month forward? Or back?

Yes but should they be moved one month forward? Or back?

No.. it's silly to say March should replace December as a winter month just because in some years March is colder then December.. likewise for September and June.

[leicsnow]

No.. it's silly to say March should replace December as a winter month just because in some years March is colder then December.. likewise for September and June.

Yes but it actually happens fairly frequently...

IMO the first half of December should be replaced by the first half of March as winter.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tellow

[A Winter's Tale]

No.. it's silly to say March should replace December as a winter month just because in some years March is colder then December.. likewise for September and June.

Totally agree! Very silly to for March to replace December. To me March is totally Spring with it's light and weather and yes, being totally Spring means very much wintry for March and very much summery for May!

December feels like winter, It's my snowiest and coldest month and it's the darkest month. When you get cold, snow, crisp sunshine coupled with the shorter Days and Christmas feel, you don't get anymore wintry than December!

[Aaron]

25C has been reached in March before too - and it reached 20C in parts last March.. not very wintry to me :smilz38:

[leicsnow]

Totally agree! Very silly to for March to replace December. To me March is totally Spring with it's light and weather and yes, being totally Spring means very much wintry for March and very much summery for May!

December feels like winter, It's my snowiest and coldest month and it's the darkest month. When you get cold, snow, crisp sunshine coupled with the shorter Days and Christmas feel, you don't get anymore wintry than December!

I think the better example is the September/June one, rather than March/December.

25C has been reached in March before too - and it reached 20C in parts last March.. not very wintry to me :smilz38:

As has -21C. Very wintry to me!

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tellow

[A Winter's Tale]

Yes but it actually happens fairly frequently...

IMO the first half of December should be replaced by the first half of March as winter.

No! No! No! December is totally winter and March is totally Spring!

I really don't think you get it! Just because March has been colder than December in previous years doesn't mean that it can replace December.

March:

Lambs are being born, Spring plants are coming out, more likely to get warmer temperatures than in December, far sunnier, feels like you are moving away from winter - but, Spring is the transition of winter to summer and it's the norm for there to be very much wintry conditions in Spring aswell as summery. And when you compare the coldest March mean temperature to December then you would easily see that March shouldn't replace December!

December:

Christmas time, everywhere you look you see snow flakes and wintry scenes in cards and decorations and films....... It's dark and it feels like winter. It's generally cold and snowy and when you get cold spells and snow in December it often has a greater punch than March! December is very much a winter month! But, the season for cold spells and snow events and wintry weather is October to May! The same as summer; April to October for heat and summer sun.

[A Winter's Tale]

I think the better example is the September/June one, rather than March/December.

As has -21C. Very wintry to me!

That's extreme! Look! -27C has been reached in December, you get big freezes and more snowfalls and more cold days, and more winter feeling days in December than in March. You never get heat in December whereas in March, when you get the right conditions it could feel positively summery; likewise it could feel like the heart of winter.

Also, explain what you mean with "September/June"?????!

[leicsnow]

That's extreme! Look! -27C has been reached in December, you get big freezes and more snowfalls and more cold days, and more winter feeling days in December than in March. You never get heat in December whereas in March, when you get the right conditions it could feel positively summery; likewise it could feel like the heart of winter.

Also, explain what you mean with "September/June"?????!

I think the more prominent example is the fact that September often beats June for warm weather (particulary in recent years), more so than March surpasses December for cold and whatever. Do you agree there?

[Optimus Prime]

Last time March was colder then December was.....2006 4.9c/6.5c

1981-2010 average temperature March/December 6.7c/4.6c

Coldest/warmest March is thought to be 1.0c a lonnng time ago (Recently 1962 at 2.8c) 9.1c is the warmest back in 1938 (recently 8.4c 1997)

Coldest/warmest December is -0.8c in 1895 (recently -0.7c 2010) 8.1c in 1974 and 1934

Range between warmest and coldest in recent years;

December 8.8c

March 6.3c

Conclusively December is more susceptible to extremes in temperature compared to March. A more volatile month.

Should March replace December as a winter month?

NO

But are the seasons being distrubted normally in recent years? 2010 was a perfect year for seasonal alignment, couldn't be more precise. But more generally they have become rather odd recently.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Optimus Prime

[A Winter's Tale]

I think the more prominent example is the fact that September often beats June for warm weather (particulary in recent years), more so than March surpasses December for cold and whatever. Do you agree there?

No! I don't agree with anything you are saying!

Last September was the warmest that I've seen and if that was June, I would be very disapointed! My best summer weather often happens in June- June is definetly far more summer like than September - lol!

Now March never surpasses December for cold and snow! Your opinion is based on very average winter weather in March beating one of the mildest December months ever that you've experienced. When you look at the past - you'll see that December is often colder than March!

March is a Spring month and it's just very normal for Spring to have a wintry flavour and a summer flavour! Just because a normal March surpasses an abnormally warm December doesn't mean that you can justify March replacing December.

[leicsnow]

Alright, could a mod lock this topic now to avoid any arguments? I probably shouldn't have started this topic.

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tellow

[Optimus Prime]

Alright, could a mod lock this topic now to avoid any arguments? I probably shouldn't have started this topic.

No-one is arguing. It's a valid Scientific discussion.

[A Winter's Tale]

Let's settle this argument!!!!!!!!

Let's start with the UK's coldest place - Scotland:

Coldest December vs Coldest March:

-1.8C (December 2010); 0.2C (March 1947) - December wins!

Warmest December vs Warmest March:

5.8C (1988); 7.0C (1938) - December wins!

Average Max Temps December vs March:

5.7C; 6.9C - December wins!

Average Min Temps December vs March:

0.5c;0.9c - December wins!

Days of Air Frost December vs March:

11.8; 10.5 - December wins!

Highest Max Temp December vs March:

18C; 26C - December wins!

Lowest Max Temp December vs March:

-16C; -4C - December wins (coldest ever max temp)

Highest Daily Min Temp December vs March:

15C; 14C - March Wins! Lol

Lowest Min Temp December vs March:

-27C; -22C - December wins (joint lowest ever temp)

December:

March:

December: Dark, freezing and snowy!

March:

December - Christmas Song:

DECEMBER VS MARCH - GLASGOW SNOWFALLS:

DECEMBER:

DECEMBER 1999: SNOWFALLS -7 (4th, 12th, 18th, 19th, 20th, 21st, 25th)

DECEMBER 2000: SNOWFALLS - 5 (17th, [24, 25],26th, 27th, 28th, 31st)

MARCH 2001 - 3 (2nd, 3rd, 22nd)

DECEMBER 2001: SNOWFALLS - 2 (13th, 29th)

MARCH 2002 - 2 (9th, 10th)

DECEMBER 2002: SNOWFALLS - 2 (18th, 19th)

DECEMBER 2003: SNOWFALLS - 0

MARCH 2004 - 1 (19th)

DECEMBER 2004: SNOWFALLS - 2 (24th, 25th)

MARCH 2005 - 1 (1st)

DECEMBER 2005: SNOWFALLS - 2 (29th, 30th)

MARCH 2006 - 5 (3rd, 7th, 11th, 12th, 16th)

DECEMBER 2006: SNOWFALLS - 0

MARCH 2007 - 2 (18th, 19th)

DECEMBER 2007: SNOWFALLS - 1 (8th)

MARCH 2008 - 4 (3rd, 24th, 26th, 28th)

DECEMBER 2008: SNOWFALLS - 3 (2nd, 11th, 12th)

MARCH 2009 - 4 (3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th)

DECEMBER 2009: SNOWFALLS - 11 (14th, 17th, 20th, 22nd, 23rd, 24th, 25th, 26th, 27th, 29th, 30th)

MARCH 2010 - 1 (30th)

DECEMBER 2010: SNOWFALLS - 10 (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 6th, 8th, 9th, 16th, 18th, 19th, 25th)

MARCH 2011 - 4 (9th, 10th, 12th, 15th)

DECEMBER 2011: SNOWFALLS - 6 (4th, 5th, 6th, 9th, 16th, 17th)

GET IT!!!!!!!!!!!

[Weather-history]

Yes because winter is composed of the three coldest months of the year on average (Dec, Jan, Feb) and summer the three warmest months of the year on average (Jun, Jul, Aug)

Spring and autumn are inbetween these two.

Further to that, we have over 300 years of records to consider, to change it now would be a folly and inconvenient. As they say if it ain't broke why fix it?

[leicsnow]

Yes because winter is composed of the three coldest months of the year on average (Dec, Jan, Feb) and summer the three warmest months of the year on average (Jun, Jul, Aug)

Spring and autumn are inbetween these two.

Further to that, we have over 300 years of records to consider, to change it now would be a folly and inconvenient. As they say if it ain't broke why fix it?

Anyway, I wasn't supposing for the 'official' designations to be changed. Just personal 'opinion' thats all.

Let's settle this argument!!!!!!!!

I think it's more like half months to be honest, I accept that these statistics are valid and I was wrong but I'm sure it would be very different if you compared the first half of December to the first half of March. The two halves of December can indeed be very different, as a settling into winter state often happens in the second half. Meanwhile, in March, the first half can be quite chilly but during the last third the temperature usually tops 15-17c on a sunny day.

Dare I say it's similar with June and September?

Edited February 1, 2012 by Tellow

[conor123]

August may aswell become an Autumn month these days it's so consistantly drab in recent years with April & May being a lot more summery.

[Optimus Prime]

August may aswell become an Autumn month these days it's so consistantly drab in recent years with April & May being a lot more summery.

Coldest August since 1994 was 15.3c in 2010. 1.6c warmer than the average September.

[A Winter's Tale]

Anyway, I wasn't supposing for the 'official' designations to be changed. Just personal 'opinion' thats all.

I think it's more like half months to be honest, I accept that these statistics are valid and I was wrong but I'm sure it would be very different if you compared the first half of December to the first half of March. The two halves of December can indeed be very different, as a settling into winter state often happens in the second half. Meanwhile, in March, the first half can be quite chilly but during the last third the temperature usually tops 15-17c on a sunny day.

Dare I say it's similar with June and September?

No! First half of December wins in my books in terms of far more snowfalls, cold snaps and the generall mood but it's a bit of a closer match!