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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

In the last couple of decades, with the exception of the winters 2009/10 and 2010/11, the UK has generally had snowfall late in the winter season, often in early spring, rather than the December-January period. We had a lot of snowy occasions from late February to early April a lot of the time. Examples:

-Probably the best example was winter 2004/5. Hardly any snow for many parts of the UK in December or January, widespread in late February/early March.

-Snow for many in February and March 2007.

-Most parts of the UK received very little snowfall in December 2007 or January 2008 but snowed fairly widespread in March and April.

-February 2009 sort of but that came early in the month.

-Even though there was lots of snow in December 2009 and January 2010, there was some particularly in Scotland in late march and the 1st day of April with some accidents.

Why is this?

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

I think in winters such as 2007/2008 we saw a mild, snowless pattern during the winter months followed by a pattern that was more suitable to some colder spells (albeit quite brief).

March 2011 wasn't bad here with 4 snowfall at Glasgow Airport and I have about 6. Sping 2010 was disapointing with one snowfall in late March but one snowfall in early May. Another decent Spring month for snow is March 2006 when we had a few decent northerlies in the early part of the month followed by an incredible battleground snowfall which brought 30cm here in Glasgow.

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Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: cold
  • Location: Sunderland
Perhaps just coincidence? I seem to recall looking back at the seasonal forum archive however and seeing many say March should replace December as a winter month, which would have been bizarre for Dec 2010! I'd imagine it's due to a lack of real cold synoptics and more relying on north and north-west winds coming off the sea while ssts are coolest?
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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

I think a lot of British people who don't have an general interest in weather do underestimate the snow potential in February, March and even April. I think a lot of people think February is early Spring although I think even March is late winter.

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

I'm interested if there was a set up in March similar to that of November 2010, would March be more severe than November or is March more likely to get severe winter weather? You know we had a "Big Freeze" in an Autumnal month that sees less snow than March. I would be interested to see what a Spring big freeze would be like.

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Posted
  • Location: Sunderland
  • Weather Preferences: cold
  • Location: Sunderland

I'm interested if there was a set up in March similar to that of November 2010, would March be more severe than November or is March more likely to get severe winter weather? You know we had a "Big Freeze" in an Autumnal month that sees less snow than March. I would be interested to see what a Spring big freeze would be like.

I dont understand the usage of 'Big Freeze'- I assume you mean cold or severe cold spell, I dislike the phrase as it really symbolises everything wrong with the media.

I'd imagine such a spell would be similar but would have more daytime melt due to stronger sunlight. The continent warms rapidly from February onwards, and so a March easterly is not usually as potent as it could be, but fortunately a cold north sea usually does little to moderate upper air temps.. for spring cold look at March 1947.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

I dont understand the usage of 'Big Freeze'- I assume you mean cold or severe cold spell, I dislike the phrase as it really symbolises everything wrong with the media.

I'd imagine such a spell would be similar but would have more daytime melt due to stronger sunlight. The continent warms rapidly from February onwards, and so a March easterly is not usually as potent as it could be, but fortunately a cold north sea usually does little to moderate upper air temps.. for spring cold look at March 1947.

It would be more exciting in early March than late obviously...by late March it can get rather balmy on sunny days.

I think if we place a "big freeze" like late November/early December 2010 in late January/early February, the sun has pretty much the same strength but I think it could be potentially worse in late January/early February due to the ocean being cold.

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl
  • Location: Windermere 120m asl

I think a lot of British people who don't have an general interest in weather do underestimate the snow potential in February, March and even April. I think a lot of people think February is early Spring although I think even March is late winter.

February very much is a winter month and prior to winter 08/09 many in the south would have said the most wintry month. In the 80's february outshone dec for cold and snow on many occasions.

As for spring snow - well the atlantic is traditionally at its quietest during spring and we are more likely to see northerlies and easterlies , due to the still cold SST's, cold arctic and continent snow often falls from northerly and easterly airstreams especially in March and first half of April. Northerlies can still deliver the goods well into May. I'm not sure whether there is a strong link between mild starts to winter and colder snowier springs, however the springs of 95, 98, 99, 00, 05 and 08 which all delivered late snowfall followed on from farily mild or very mild decembers, conversely the cold or rather cold decembers of 96, 01, 08 and 10 preceded preety snowless springs. I do think next spring will be much cooler than the one just gone with a much greater risk of late season snowfalls.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

February very much is a winter month and prior to winter 08/09 many in the south would have said the most wintry month. In the 80's february outshone dec for cold and snow on many occasions.

As for spring snow - well the atlantic is traditionally at its quietest during spring and we are more likely to see northerlies and easterlies , due to the still cold SST's, cold arctic and continent snow often falls from northerly and easterly airstreams especially in March and first half of April. Northerlies can still deliver the goods well into May. I'm not sure whether there is a strong link between mild starts to winter and colder snowier springs, however the springs of 95, 98, 99, 00, 05 and 08 which all delivered late snowfall followed on from farily mild or very mild decembers, conversely the cold or rather cold decembers of 96, 01, 08 and 10 preceded preety snowless springs. I do think next spring will be much cooler than the one just gone with a much greater risk of late season snowfalls.

Snowfall well into May? That would be a very rare character, I don't believe in recent history there has been any snowfall of even little significance in the UK, except maybe in the peak of the Highlands.

I'm with you that there is definately a link between mild late autumn-early winter and cold late winter-early spring though.

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

Recent years might give the impression that snow in May is exceedingly rare but in fact prior to 1998, snow fell widely to low levels across Scotland and northern England in roughly one in three Mays. Not only did snow fall quite widely in the Mays of 1993, 1995 and 1997, and more locally during the exceptionally cold one in 1996, the notably warm, sunny Mays of 1989 and 1992 both produced localised snowfalls to low levels in the second week.

Also, the relatively high frequency of snowfalls late in the season isn't a recent thing- long term averages suggest that in many parts of the country sleet/snow falling has been about as common in April as in November, and about as common in March as in December. 2005 had an unusually prolonged wintry spell from mid February to mid March, and 2006 likewise but shifted about a week later, but then again the past three seasons have had unusually cold snowy Decembers and unusually snowless spring quarters.

I don't think a link between a mild autumn/early winter and cold late winter/early spring really exists, despite a pretty widespread insistence that it does. The only relationship that I've been able to find from statistical analysis is that a severely cold December quite often leads into a cold January but rarely leads into a cold February.

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Posted
  • Location: Paris suburbs
  • Location: Paris suburbs

Snowfall well into May? That would be a very rare character, I don't believe in recent history there has been any snowfall of even little significance in the UK, except maybe in the peak of the Highlands.

I'm with you that there is definately a link between mild late autumn-early winter and cold late winter-early spring though.

Early-mid May 2010 had snow showers in the Peak District down to ~300m, I'm sure that snow fell down to sea level in parts of Scotland. Mid June 2011 had snow reported on ukweatherworld at 450m in the Brecon Beacons, the same system that brought settling snow on Snowdon. I believe May 1996 was also rather snowy. Late April 1981 brought (so I'm told) 2-3 feet (!) of snow here and killed many newborn lambs from the intense drifting.

However, perhaps the most notable very-late snowfall was in early June 1975:

"1. SNOW and SLEET occurred in June as far south as the London area during the first few days of June 1975 (sleet as far south as Portsmouth). (also noted on 12th Jun 1791). The snow melted away almost immediately, except over the higher parts of central and northern England. This is thought to be the first time since July 1888, that snow has been reported so widely so far south in summer. More than 10 cm of FRESH SNOW over the highlands of Scotland. SNOW (circa 2.5cm/1 inch) stops play (subsequently abandoned) at a CRICKET MATCH [ Derbyshire v. Lancashire ] at Buxton, Derbyshire on the 2nd."

http://www.hollinsclough.org.uk/weather.htm

While a rarity, it certainly isn't limited to the 'peaks of Highland Scotland'. I think people tend to forget that there are areas between lowland England and Highland Scotland! The climate at, say, 600m in the Peak District is far removed from either of those places.

Scottish Highland peaks are perhaps the only place where August snow has fell, which has happened in both 2010 and 2011.

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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

Yep it snowed here in May 2010 and I believe that you're more likely to get snow in May than in October. Also I think there is a link between cool autumns and mild winters as I think in the naughties and 1998 there was quite a bit of frosty weather around in October and November and the resulting winters were mainly disapointing with some cold and snow in the Spring.

In fact, prior to the winter 2008/2009 (although we did see March snowfall in 2009) really February and particulary March delivered the goods for snow. In 2005/2006 the winter only brought 2 snowfalls to Glasgow Airport (Although I believe that there was a notable battleground snowfall in 2005) however March saw 5 snowfalls aswell as an incredible frontal snowfall that brough depths of 30cm. Really, in some of the winters between 2002 and 2008, March was really our last gasp for cold and snow and it was almost considered a winter month. Prior to November 2010, really we only had 3 November snowfalls between 1999 and 2009 and 2 of them were in 2008, so really March is a better month for cold and snow than November although the end of November 2010 almost surpasses what March can throw at us (but March 2006 was quite exceptional).

Really, overall since 1999 in the Glasgow Area our best month for snow is December with an average of 4 snowfalls, followed by January with 2/3 snowfalls, then equally shared between February and March with 2, then November with less than 1 and of course April.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Early-mid May 2010 had snow showers in the Peak District down to ~300m, I'm sure that snow fell down to sea level in parts of Scotland. Mid June 2011 had snow reported on ukweatherworld at 450m in the Brecon Beacons, the same system that brought settling snow on Snowdon. I believe May 1996 was also rather snowy. Late April 1981 brought (so I'm told) 2-3 feet (!) of snow here and killed many newborn lambs from the intense drifting.

However, perhaps the most notable very-late snowfall was in early June 1975:

"1. SNOW and SLEET occurred in June as far south as the London area during the first few days of June 1975 (sleet as far south as Portsmouth). (also noted on 12th Jun 1791). The snow melted away almost immediately, except over the higher parts of central and northern England. This is thought to be the first time since July 1888, that snow has been reported so widely so far south in summer. More than 10 cm of FRESH SNOW over the highlands of Scotland. SNOW (circa 2.5cm/1 inch) stops play (subsequently abandoned) at a CRICKET MATCH [ Derbyshire v. Lancashire ] at Buxton, Derbyshire on the 2nd."

http://www.hollinscl....uk/weather.htm

While a rarity, it certainly isn't limited to the 'peaks of Highland Scotland'. I think people tend to forget that there are areas between lowland England and Highland Scotland! The climate at, say, 600m in the Peak District is far removed from either of those places.

Scottish Highland peaks are perhaps the only place where August snow has fell, which has happened in both 2010 and 2011.

When it snowed in mid-June 2011, was that on or around the 12th June as that day was pretty cool (although not to the point that it snowed) where I live. Also, can you provide a link?

Also, my grandmother remembers the snow you mentioned in June 1975, she reckons a week later it was scorching, people were sunbathing with snow still on the ground!

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Perhaps just coincidence? I seem to recall looking back at the seasonal forum archive however and seeing many say March should replace December as a winter month, which would have been bizarre for Dec 2010! I'd imagine it's due to a lack of real cold synoptics and more relying on north and north-west winds coming off the sea while ssts are coolest?

In regards to the talk about March replacing December as a winter month, many have started assuming November is a winter month after last years widespread snowfall, although it definitely isn't in my opinion. And yes it would seem rather silly after cold December 2010.

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Probably random chance.

The last time I saw snow during spring was April 2008.

Yeah I remember the 6th April. It snowed loads in Spring before that year too but in recent years we haven't had much.

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Posted
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire
  • Weather Preferences: Sunshine, convective precipitation, snow, thunderstorms, "episodic" months.
  • Location: Lincoln, Lincolnshire

Sleety showers were reported from the Hull district on the 11th May 2010, with snow in Cramlington (just north of Newcastle). Overall, the 11th May 2010 produced the most widespread snow in May since 1997, and it had quite a lot in common with the cold snap in the second week of May 1995 (though it proved rather shorter lived). In the case of the May 1995 event, which followed a heatwave in the first week, sleet and snow showers fell quite widely from the Midlands northwards on the 11th-13th, and although it generally became less cold thereafter, a frontal system on the 16th/17th brought snow to some areas (e.g. Shropshire and some inland parts of NE England) on its northern flank.

The only near-approach between 1998 and 2009 inclusive was in 2005, when northerly winds brought widespread frosts around the 8th-11th and 16th-18th, but snow showers were largely confined to high ground.

But widespread sleet/snow in May was not unusual prior to 1998, at least north of the Midlands.

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Posted
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Anything but mild south-westeries in winter
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl

I saw sleet in May 2010.

Snow in Spring has been fairly common over the past 11 years, with snow in March being just as common as in December.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

Wow I don't remember the 6th april 2008 being that extreme http://hw.nwstatic.co.uk/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.png

Edited by torrch
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Posted
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire
  • Location: Bearsden, East Dunbartonshire

Really I've only seen April snow about twice in my life and one of those occasions was up in the Highlands. In 2008 all we got was a heavy shower that threatened to accumilate but just moved on. I think in April really an easterly would certainly fail to deliver any wintry that's possible from Mid November to March. If the blocking was right, a week or two with a northerly in April would be interesting and certainly April snow can still be distruptive as Coast's photos suggest.

Before last November, I never had lying snow in Autumn before so it will be nice to see some in April.

For me, my best months for snow in order are:

1. December - On average 4

2. January - 3 snowfalls

3. February - 3 snowfalls

4. March - 2 snowfalls

5. November - 1 snowfall

6. April - Less than 1 snowfall

I'd like to find out about notable April Snowfalls of the past, Battleground snowfalls in April and what is the most severe a cold spell you could get in April.

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Posted
  • Location: Leicestershire
  • Weather Preferences: Cold, snowy Winters and cool, wet Summers
  • Location: Leicestershire

To be honest, most April's bring at least one overnight dusting during the month. For me at least.

-My grandmother remembers some significant snowfall between the 10th and 15th of April 1998.

-For me, April 10th 2003 and April 8th 2005 brought some snowfall notably not exclusive to nighttime.

-April 9th 2006 although this was rather on the sleet side.

-Late March 2010 and running onto 1st of April brought some snowfall, which was particularly bad in Scotland. For me it was rather confined to overnight and again on the sleet side.

-And of course 6th April 2008.

Perhaps just coincidence? I seem to recall looking back at the seasonal forum archive however and seeing many say March should replace December as a winter month, which would have been bizarre for Dec 2010! I'd imagine it's due to a lack of real cold synoptics and more relying on north and north-west winds coming off the sea while ssts are coolest?

Can someone provide a link to the topic which talks about March replacing December, etc? I would be interested to see it.

Edited by Tellow
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Posted
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl
  • Weather Preferences: Anything but mild south-westeries in winter
  • Location: Whitkirk, Leeds 86m asl

I usually see snow at least falling in April most years.

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Posted
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl
  • Weather Preferences: Snow and lots of it or warm and sunny, no mediocre dross
  • Location: Cheddar Valley, 20mtrs asl

For me the most memorable late snow would have to be Easter 1975, Good Friday was the 28th March; we woke in the Cotswolds (roughly 600ft asl) to 6 inches of snow and it continued to snow on and off all day - it was wonderful!

In Somerset the latest I've experienced would be the 4th April 2000, it wasn't forecast, got a shock when I opened the curtains in the morning. I have to say I was less than impressed to see snow that day as we were moving house, the prospect of getting a Pickfords lorry through tiny Somerset lanes up on the Mendips was a bit of a worry but thankfully the Sun came out and it was all gone by late afternoon.

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