The World's Glaciers

[4wd]

So is this going to be another doom thread of anything that can be found about retreating ice. I know they aren't all retreating, furthermore glacier balance is complex and certainly not a very good indicator of warming ( I guess you started this as an additional drip-feed warming propaganda theme thread).

In some cases warming can increase precipitation causing an increase in mass or speeding up of flow plus extension. Colder dry periods can make them shrink, as less material is being added further up. Like many other warming examples it should be noted that not much notice was taken of glaciers until Victorian times, which coincided with many glaciers having undergone dramatic increase during the little ice age. For example at Chamonix which I know quite well, parts of the town were threatened by encroaching ice tumbling from Mont Blan - where previously there was forest and pasture. It is also thought that during Roman times, the Alps had far less ice than now.

I was right, this is just yet another propaganda thread to be keep rumbling on with carefully selected posts about glacier retreat.

It could be an interesting thread, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to find some glacier related links that aren't in this tedious we are doomed category.

This is not about 'denial' but stating the bleeding obvious.

An interesting subject is being effective subverted again, it is all so ridiculously predictable.

 

[jonboy]

 

I was right, this is just yet another propaganda thread to be keep rumbling on with carefully selected posts about glacier retreat.

It could be an interesting thread, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to find some glacier related links that aren't in this tedious we are doomed category.

This is not about 'denial' but stating the bleeding obvious.

An interesting subject is being effective subverted again, it is all so ridiculously predictable.

 

Thats why I rarely read some of these threads as its the same old we are all doomed next we will have athread about walruses meeting being a sign of global warming and we must do better!!!!

[BornFromTheVoid]

Why does everything that goes against your beliefs have to be propaganda?

 

Can either of ye show how every link is promoting an idea of doom?

 

If it take careful selection to find glaciers in retreat, why don't either of ye post links to the large proportion that are growing in mass, eh? Nobody is preventing ye from posting links in here!

[knocker]

I was right, this is just yet another propaganda thread to be keep rumbling on with carefully selected posts about glacier retreat.

It could be an interesting thread, surely it wouldn't be that difficult to find some glacier related links that aren't in this tedious we are doomed category.

This is not about 'denial' but stating the bleeding obvious.

An interesting subject is being effective subverted again, it is all so ridiculously predictable.

 

 

What is bleeding obvious is your usual ideological drivel. Mauri Pelto is one of the world's leading glaciologists and his site is one of the most informative and detailed on the web.

 

And how come you ignore this site that I've posted a couple of times or is that biased as well. As BFTV says there is nothing stopping anyone posting their own informative links which would make a change from the usual bile.

 

http://www.grid.unep.ch/glaciers/

Edited October 2, 2014 by knocker

[jonboy]

Norway

Aalfotbreen +1360

Austdalsbreeen +790

Austre Broeggerbreen -180

Blomstolskar +1590

Breidalblikkbrea +1146

Engabreen +1140

Graafjellsbreen +1230

Graasubreen -260

Hansbreen -1240

Hansebreen +850

Remebesdalsskaaka (Hardangerjoekulen) +910

Hellstugubreen -10

Irenebreen -851

Kongsvegen +210

Langfjordjoekul -760

Midtre (Austre) Lovenbreen -260

Nigardsbreen +1222

Rundvassbreen +638

Storbreen +100

Svelgjabreen +1313

Waldemarbreen -916

Werenskioldbreen -1280

Sweden

Marmaglaciaeren -90

Rabots Glaciaer +20

Riukojietna -90

Storglaciaeren +680

Tarfalaglaciaeren +830

Just a few of the increases but then again its just BILE!!!

[knocker]

That's fine but those figures on there own mean nought and some are negative so all you have to do is supply the link. I still fail to see how the UNEP link of world glaciers doesn't cover it. The figures aren't bile but the incessant rant about propaganda is.

[jonboy]

 

That's fine but those figures on there own mean nought and some are negative so all you have to do is supply the link. I still fail to see how the UNEP link of world glaciers doesn't cover it. The figures aren't bile but the incessant rant about propaganda is.

 

Seeing that they were garnered from your link then I'm surprised you don't know what they mean!!!

[knocker]

 

 

Seeing that they were garnered from your link then I'm surprised you don't know what they mean!!!

 

I didn't say I didn't know, I said posted as they were they mean nought. And as they are posted from my link doesn't that rather defeat the propaganda argument, not that it needs defeating. Anyway forgetting this irrelevant bickering about nothing I trust you found the paper 'Infrared radiation and planetary temperature' interesting.

[jonboy]

 

I didn't say I didn't know, I said posted as they were they mean nought. And as they are posted from my link doesn't that rather defeat the propaganda argument, not that it needs defeating. Anyway forgetting this irrelevant bickering about nothing I trust you found the paper 'Infrared radiation and planetary temperature' interesting.

 

I have to say that as interesting as the paper maybe it is way above my knowledge base so won't go anywhere near commenting on it but I find the discussion going on elsewhere interesting but please don't ask me who is right or wrong

[knocker]

.

 

Meade Glacier Rapid Retreat 1986-2014, Alaska

 

Visual of the plumbing of the Rainbow Glacier. https://vimeo.com/108079664

Edited October 9, 2014 by knocker

[keithlucky]

Karakoram glaciers expanding between China Pakistan India are stable and could well be growing.http://www.firstpost.com/living/new-study-show-karakoram-glaciers-arent-melting-despite-global-warming-1755835.html

[knocker]

Yemayundrung Glacier Retreat, Tibet, China

 

The Yemayundrung Glacier flows northeast from the Nepal-China border to end in lake at the headwaters of the Khugpi Chu River. This river is one of the source rivers of the Yarlung Tsangpo (Zangbo) in China which becomes the Brahmaputra in India. This is a region where Li et al (2011) noted that increasing temperature, especially at altitude, the fronts of 32 glaciers have retreated, mass losses of 10 glaciers have been considerable, glacial lakes in six regions have expanded and melt water discharge of four basins has also increased. This is further documented by an inventory of 308 glaciers in the Nam Co Basin, Tibet, where an increased loss of area for the 2001-2009 period, 6% area loss (Bolch et al., 2010) was observed. Here we examine Landsat imagery of changes in this glacier from 1998 to 2014.

[knocker]

Glacier area and length changes in Norway from repeat inventories

 

Abstract. In this study, we assess glacier area and length changes in mainland Norway from repeat Landsat TM/ETM+-derived inventories and digitized topographic maps. The multi-temporal glacier inventory consists of glacier outlines from three time ranges: 1947 to 1985 (GI_n50), 1988 to 1997 (GI₁₉₉₀), and 1999 to 2006 (GI₂₀₀₀). For the northernmost regions, we include an additional inventory (GI₁₉₀₀) based on historic maps surveyed between 1895 and 1907. Area and length changes are assessed per glacier unit, 36 subregions, and for three main parts of Norway: southern, central, and northern. The results show a decrease in the glacierized area from 2994 km² in GI_n50 to 2668 km² in GI₂₀₀₀ (total 2722 glacier units), corresponding to an area reduction of −326 km², or −11% of the initial GI_n50 area. The average length change for the full epoch (within GI_n50 and GI₂₀₀₀) is −240 m. Overall, the comparison reveals both area and length reductions as general patterns, even though some glaciers have advanced. The three northernmost subregions show the highest retreat rates, whereas the central part of Norway shows the lowest change rates. Glacier area and length changes indicate that glaciers in maritime areas in southern Norway have retreated more than glaciers in the interior, and glaciers in the north have retreated more than southern glaciers. These observed spatial trends in glacier change are related to a combination of several factors such as glacier geometry, elevation, and continentality, especially in southern Norway.

 

http://www.the-cryosphere.net/8/1885/2014/tc-8-1885-2014.pdf

[knocker]

Researchers resolve the Karakoram glacier anomaly, a cold case of climate science

 

Researchers from Princeton University and other institutions may have hit upon an answer to a climate-change puzzle that has eluded scientists for years, and that could help understand the future availability of water for hundreds of millions of people.

 

In a phenomenon known as the "Karakoram anomaly," glaciers in the Karakoram mountains, a range within the Himalayas, have remained stable and even increased in mass while many glaciers nearby — and worldwide — have receded during the past 150 years, particularly in recent decades. Himalayan glaciers provide freshwater to a densely populated area that includes China, Pakistan and India, and are the source of the Ganges and Indus rivers, two of the world's major waterways.

 

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2014-10/pu-rrt102214.php

[keithlucky]

Glacier area and length changes in Norway from repeat inventories

 

http://www.the-cryosphere.net/8/1885/2014/tc-8-1885-2014.pdf

Really? Increased snowfall makes glaciers grow? What a startling revelation.This is from 2010Glaciers on Asia’s largest mountain range getting BIGGER

Although there were wide variations between individual glaciers, the mass of the glaciers in this 2,168-square-mile (5,615-sq-km) area has been increasing.And yet, in 2009 the UN’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) mistakenly stated that all of the Himalayan glaciers would  disappear in just 26 years, by 2035

Edited October 22, 2014 by keithlucky

[BornFromTheVoid]

Really? Increased snowfall makes glaciers grow? What a startling revelation.This is from 2010Glaciers on Asia’s largest mountain range getting BIGGER

Although there were wide variations between individual glaciers, the mass of the glaciers in this 2,168-square-mile (5,615-sq-km) area has been increasing.

 

Did you quote the wrong post?

 

It appears to be from 2012 actually. The spoof site iceagenow, rehashed for 2014 and copied word for word by yourself. The spoof ice age site is reusing the same responses but to different studies. I suspect they didn't bother to read the most recent Karakoram paper.

 

The 2014 version http://iceagenow.info/2014/10/glaciers-k-2-2nd-highest-peak-earth-are-growing/

The 2012 version http://iceagenow.info/2012/04/glaciers-asia%E2%80%99s-largest-mountain-range-bigger/

 

Have you any comment on the actual study?

[keithlucky]

Here we go  lets remember were the tabloid  IPPC report  got the story from on the disappearing  Hymalayan Glaciers Oh yes from a news paper article  http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/united-nations-blunder-on-glaciers-exposed/story-e6frg6n6-1225820614171

Edited October 22, 2014 by keithlucky

[Gray-Wolf]

"Most alpine glaciers in the Northern Hemisphere reached their maximum extents of the Holocene between AD 1600 and 1850. Since the late 1800s, however, glaciers have thinned and retreated, mainly because of atmospheric warming. Glacier retreat in western Canada and other regions is exposing subfossil tree stumps, soils and plant detritus that, until recently, were beneath tens to hundreds of metres of ice. In addition, human artefacts and caribou dung are emerging from permanent snow patches many thousands of years after they were entombed. Dating of these materials indicates that many of these glaciers and snow patches are smaller today than at any time in the past several thousand years. This evidence, in turn, suggests that glacier recession in the 20th century is unprecedented during the past several millennia and that glaciers in western Canada have reached minimum extents only 150–300 years after they achieved their maximum Holocene extents."

 

Hmmmm, what to consider?

[knocker]

Vestisen Glacier Retreat, Norway

[knocker]

A century of glacier change in the Wind River Range, WY

 

Abstract

The Wind River Range spans roughly 200 km along the continental divide in western Wyoming and encompasses at least 269 glaciers and perennial snowfields totaling 34.34 Â± 0.13 km² (2006), including Gannett Glacier, the largest glacier (2.81 km²) in the continental U.S. outside of Washington State. To track changing glacier and perennial snow surface area over the past century we used historic maps, aerial photography, and geologic evidence evident in said imagery. Since the end of the Little Ice Age (~ 1900), when the glaciers retreated from their moraines, to 2006 the ice-covered area shrank by ~ 47%. The main driver of surface area change was air temperature, with glaciers at lower elevations shrinking faster than those at higher elevations. The total contribution of ice wastage to late summer stream flow ranged from 0.4 to 1.5%, 0.9 to 2.8%, 1.7 to 5.4%, and 3.4 to 10.9% in four different watersheds, none of which exceeded 7% glacier cover. Results from previous studies were difficult to include because of differences in interpretation of glacier boundaries or because of poor imagery or to extensive seasonal snow. These difficulties highlight potential problems in combining data sets from different studies and underscores the importance of reexamining past observations to ensure consistent interpretation.

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0169555X14005194

[4wd]

"Most alpine glaciers in the Northern Hemisphere reached their maximum extents of the Holocene between AD 1600 and 1850. Since the late 1800s, however, glaciers have thinned and retreated, mainly because of atmospheric warming. Glacier retreat in western Canada and other regions is exposing subfossil tree stumps, soils and plant detritus that, until recently, were beneath tens to hundreds of metres of ice. In addition, human artefacts and caribou dung are emerging from permanent snow patches many thousands of years after they were entombed. Dating of these materials indicates that many of these glaciers and snow patches are smaller today than at any time in the past several thousand years. This evidence, in turn, suggests that glacier recession in the 20th century is unprecedented during the past several millennia and that glaciers in western Canada have reached minimum extents only 150–300 years after they achieved their maximum Holocene extents."

 

Hmmmm, what to consider?

If human artefacts and remains of mature trees are being revealed, what does that tell us?

Think quite hard now,

Clearly the author is so wrapped up in warming mentality that he/she didn't consider it's not compatible with:

 

 

glacier recession in the 20th century is unprecedented during the past several millennia

[Devonian]

If human artefacts and remains of mature trees are being revealed, what does that tell us?

Think quite hard now,

Clearly the author is so wrapped up in warming mentality that he/she didn't consider it's not compatible with:

 

 

Read what was written. There is no contradiction.

[knocker]

Kleinfleisskees, Austria loses its terminus tongue.

 

Kleinfleisskees Retreat, Austria

[keithlucky]

If human artefacts and remains of mature trees are being revealed, what does that tell us?

Think quite hard now,

Clearly the author is so wrapped up in warming mentality that he/she didn't consider it's not compatible with:

/

Edited November 4, 2014 by keithlucky

[Gray-Wolf]

As far as I am aware the 'human artifacts' are lost hunting weapons that were buried in the snow as the hunters lobbed them at herds using the snow patches for 'cooling' over the summer migrations? The fact that the herds use permanent snow patches as respite from the heat as they migrate show us just how long these patches have existed for and begs the question 'how will their loss impact migrating herds?' Increasing warmth not only melts the 'permanent snow patches' but increases the insect loads feeding on the animals leading to disturbed grazing patterns and animals not carrying enough weight into winter.

 

Finds like 'the ice man' help us better understand the climate optimum after the end of the last ice age. To find ourselves now matching that 'optimum' ( by revealing the trees that were able to grow at that altitude back then) does make me "think quite hard".......... why should we be seeing temps and ice cover matching the climatic optimum when orbital forcings should be seeing us cool?