91 replies to this topic

[Coast]

An item on BBC Breakfast TV News this morning highlighted a new government campaign to attract more tourists to the UK by 'selling' our diverse weather. It also features in the following BBC online article. So is our weather really that bad and can we use it to bring more tourism?

Quote

British weather is often seen as a drawback but a marketing campaign is hoping to use the nation's favourite talking point to attract foreigners. So can Britain's weather really boost tourism?

There is little Britons love moaning about more than the weather. Barely a day passes without a familiar exchange along the lines of: "Isn't it terrible weather? Isn't it cold out?". Indeed some would argue that - along with tea drinking and queueing - lamenting the weather is almost woven into British DNA.

But according to Culture Secretary Jeremy Hunt, Britain is selling itself short. He says British weather is much better than both Britons and foreigners - who tend to think of Britain as a rainy and cold country - believe. Announcing a government campaign to attract more tourists, he told the Times: "We have much lower rainfall than Paris. We have to make sure people understand the reality about the weather."

So could the weather actually be Britain's secret weapon? The Independent's travel editor Simon Calder thinks the campaign might be on to something. It is the British way to grumble about our weather - but the more you travel, the more you understand that we enjoy a wonderfully diverse yet usually benign climate.

"San Diego in California may claim the balmiest weather, and Phoenix, Arizona, the sunniest, but ours is much more interesting," he says. Far from bemoaning the weather's changeability, travel writer Hilary Bradt agrees that it is its variety that makes it so exciting. "There is nothing monotonous about the British weather, and it's because of its variety that we have such wonderful landscapes and countryside.

"I used to live in California, and actually the relentless blue skies became very boring," she says. But even if British weather is better - and more interesting - than people think, how easy is it to market? According to Jonathan Gabay, a marketing expert and the founder of Brand Forensics, selling the weather is always going to be an uphill struggle.

Britons are accustomed to spells of heavy rainy

"A few years ago Israel ran a marketing campaign that showed the country wasn't all desert - it showed Tel Aviv - that was acceptable because it was fact. "The trouble with the weather is that, even with statistics - for example saying the rainfall is actually x, even though you thought it was y - how on earth can you be sure it will happen? It's variable," he says. As far as facts go, rain actually falls on fewer days a year in London than it does in Paris, Santander in Spain, and Wellington in New Zealand, according to VisitBritain.

Over the last 30 years, the average maximum temperature in July has been 20.6C in Teignmouth, Devon, 19.4C in Newton Rigg, Cumbria, and 22.8C in Greenwich, London, Met Office figures reveal. That compares with 18C in Auchincruive, Ayrshire and 19C in Armagh But even with statistics, Bradt thinks it will be difficult to change people's perceptions - especially if it needs to start in Britain's own backyard.

"The campaign might be able to change foreigners attitudes - even though the strong perceptions of foggy Britain from the 60s and 70s still persist - but it will be difficult to change British attitudes. The British love complaining - it's either too hot or too cold, too wet or too dry - our whole culture is based on complaining about the weather, it's what binds people together," she says. Gabay thinks there is also another factor at play. According to the branding expert, this is the era of the most cynical consumers ever, and toying with one of the things people most look forward to - their two-week break - is quite a risk.

"There are a couple of things that you don't mess with consumers over - one is religion, another is money - the past performance of a fund does not necessarily reflect its future performance - but perhaps the one that supersedes them all is their holiday," he says. Rather than using the weather as a "hook", Gabay thinks it would be safer to focus on Britain's heritage, landscape or people. "Admittedly not everyone wants hot weather, not everyone wants a beach. But if you are going to hedge your bets, people are go to Marbella rather than Manchester," he says.

However Calder believes Britain could do much more to market itself, especially off season, by pointing to some surprising features. "For example in the lovely county of Somerset, the driest month is April. And its joint warmest month - with July - is May," he says. So where does Calder think is the best weather in Britain?

"Scotland, by a mile, where a day without at least two or three seasons represented is unusual," he says.

http://www.bbc.co.uk...gazine-16963717

[Thundery wintry showers]

The off-putting issues with British summers are cloud cover and cool breezes, and the frequency of rain rather than the quantity. Most of eastern England and eastern Scotland, extending all the way up from London to Aberdeen, are considerably drier than most parts of the continent (indeed, as the article claims, London is drier on average than Paris). However, the rainfall shortage arises because a relatively high proportion of the rain is light, drizzly and of frontal origin.

In Britain's defence, it can certainly be said that we get more varied weather than our continental neighbours because we are capable of getting the same weather as them when we get a southerly airstream, and we also get other varieties. It is also well worth informing holidaymakers that most western areas, and also Scotland, tend to see their most reliable weather in April, May and early June rather than in July/August.

I'm not sure about the "in Scotland a day without two or three seasons represented is unusual". I would like to think of it that way, having certainly experienced a lot of "three seasons in one day" type weather in my trips to the Glasgow area, but for instance the Kingdom of Fife has a very benign climate, and there are issues with persistent drizzle in the west in tropical maritime airstreams and "haar" in the east. Having had holidays in central parts of Europe, they seem pretty capable of getting two/three seasons in one day as well. Kudos to the marketers for trying to make British summers attractive to tourists though!

[DiagonalRedLine]

Personally, I think the weather in Britain is generally not that bad, although this will probably depend where you live, and what you consider as great weather. One thing I really love about Britain's weather is its diversity and unpredictability. We can almost literally experience any type of weather from a day of sunshine and snow showers, to a day of full blue sky - the latter being especially true if a High-Pressure system can set itself in the right place. I think one other good thing about the weather here is it provides something for both fans of cold and warm to enjoy.

Some issues would be that if you love just one particular type of weather, such as contstant sunshine, then this is where our weather may not always deliver. Usually, the further South and East you are the better chance you are of seeing sunny spells (although if an Easterly flow develops, then Eastern areas can become invaded by cloud from the North Sea). I think one other problem is that some days can be dominated by 'no weather' (or 'little weather') at all, such as a day dominated by featureless cloud and a cool breeze.

Edited by Rainbow Snow, 16 February 2012 - 10:55 .

[Scorcher]

The biggest problem is the lack of sunshine and general cloudiness. Having said that southern parts of England compare favourably with places close by on the continent. Somewhere like Eastbourne or Bognor Regis is considerably sunnier than Paris, on average for example. I think the main issue though is cloudiness in the summer- many places in Europe are just as dull as the UK during winter but they make up for this with much sunnier summers.

I also agree with TWS that the breeze is a major factor. The UK is noticeably breezier than places on the continent that are away from oceanic influences, particularly central Europe. To use BBC terminology, this takes 'the edge off the temperatures' in the summer. When the temperature is 20C a strong breeze can make the difference between being able to wear shorts and a t-shirt or needing a jumper. This is far more common in the UK than say in eastern France or southern Germany.

[Alza]

The NE's problem is simply the temperature; there are so many days in summer which are only 15-18°C, with an average temperature of 18°C in July/August. There are a handful of days each year which are 22-26°C, but rarely hotter than that. Also, you can never rule out days with North Sea low cloud and temperatures of just 10-15°C under a NE'ly wind, even in the height of summer. It is much more unusual for a sub 20°C day in Southern England though, so summers are much more pleasant there.

Yes, the breeze is an issue, but 21°C with a windchill of 15°C in Southern England is nothing like 12°C with a windchill of 5°C in the NE!

Edited by Alza 2, 16 February 2012 - 11:59 .

[La Bise]

It is very changeable but seems to reset to standard grey, windy, rainy with an alarming regularity. Days in January and July can show the same temperature profile...

Give me the sharply defined seasons of central Europe anyday, even if sometimes it becomes hard to bear (either heat or cold)...

[danm]

I think for many southern parts of the UK at least, the summer's are a lot better than people abroad think. It is often warm and sunny, and temperatures can frequently get into the high 20's and low 30's during heatwaves.

As for the winter, I'm not sure what we'd sell to be honest. People who like snow wouldn't come to the UK because snow is so unpredictable and relatively difficult to achieve in this country compared to places with a more continental climate, such as New York. When it isn't snowing, it is very often damp and windy in the winter months, and I'm not sure how many foreign tourists would find that appealing.

Edited by danm, 16 February 2012 - 12:06 .

[Bottesford]

Iceland gets a lot of tourists and their weather is even less 'desirable' than ours if it's comfortable outdoor activity you're after. Over there 20c+ is a heatwave.
One big draw they have (aside from the volcanic nature of the island- the obvious main draw) is the 24 hour daylight in high summer. It makes an outdoor trek that bit safer and more flexible without the worry of getting stranded somewhere in the dark.

Perhaps that's something we could push especially in Scotland - our long daylight hours. Compared to the likes of Spain or even France we get a good 1-2 or maybe more hours extra light then them.
Unfortunately because Euro time is an hour ahead of us sunset times are roughly similar to ours with the benefit only felt at 4am in the morning - not exactly a key time of day for tourists. I went to northern Spain last June. Sunset was just after 9pm (so a mere 20-50 mins earlier than the UK) but sunrise was at 7am. I didn't see too many sunrises on that holiday but a whole load of sunsets...
This opens up that other can of worms about our time zone at which point I'll get my coat...

[robthefool]

Depending on where you live, it can be good or bad.

In my opinion, I would hate to live in northern England or Scotland weather wise - summers are just too poor, even in contrast to the SE the differences between a few hundred miles can be massive. The winter in these areas usually isn't too much different to other areas, so there are not really any bonuses in living further north if you're looking for better winter weather.

I think London has a decent climate. Winters can be good as anywhere else the last few years have shown, and snow is probably more common than many places further north. Outside of winter, is is probably usually the warmest area of the UK, and for me the only place in the UK that has decent summer temperatures. So often in summer I hear of people complaining about temperatures of 12C in say Newcastle, but that's almost impossible here, and from July to mid August even in the poorer summers in recent years temperatures are almost always between 22-26C on average. We also benefit from heatwaves more than the rest of the country as well - In Scotland 30C is very rare, whilst here it is not rare at all - on average we reach 30C about 5 times a year.

So overall, I think that the bad press our country gets for weather is justified, but not for every place, the south east has a semi continental climate which certainly merits it to be above other places in the UK in summer.

[Stormmad26]

It is my opinion that Britain's weather isn't as bad in terms of being mostly dull/wet as some make out, especially around these parts. Most of the time of course it isn't actually raining, however I think it may be hard to create a decent market over our weather where tourists are impressed.

One memory I have is last April when I was in a chemistry lesson and a shower started (1st for ages) and some people went 'oh look at that rain, I hate England', and I thought 'umm it's been unusually dry for over a month or two, most places you'd go on holiday have been wetter'. I think some people would be surprised we get an average of about 7 hours sunshine a day on the coast around here in the summer.

I do feel though if people had weather as a major factor in their holiday they may want more 'spectacular' weather, like thunderstorms, or maybe lots of sunshine if looking for good weather. Also in this country the synoptic set up's are too unpredictable, they could get a week of sunny intervals, or changeable showery weather, or wet weather, or a heatwave, or a cold northerly etc. This week for example there's nothing unusual in the forecast or particularly interesting. Mildish temps, dropping a bit this weekend, lots of cloud, the odd bit of light rain.

I think many people might prefer more 'defined'or 'more likely' weather types, i.e continental Europe. In some ways I haven't always understood our weather's reputation as being so changeable, for example much of continental Europe can get 'a few seasons in 1 day', i.e a front clearing, then sunshine, then showers, but with more thunderstorms and heat in the summer, greater temp swings usually possible due to the more continental climate, and more snow in winter. We can get 'stuck in a rut' with weather at times, however our climate is probably more changeable in some ways with more showery (but not major convection) days, and more fronts coming through etc.

There are a few things I think could attract certain types of people though, for example our relatively cool temperatures in summer especially in western and northern areas could attract people who don't like the heat so much, and those who want to have more active holidays such as walking or cycling, whereas in many other continental areas it could be pretty hot and oppressive doing these. Also often when we get westerly air flows the visibility is often excellent with great views. There is no guarantee we won't be under a heatwave then though with similar conditions to the continent, or a wet cloudy SW'erly flow, but there's no guarantee with the weather in most places. There may be a few that want a break from deep cold in winter I guess too.
I suppose there could also be a minority that might like Atlantic storms or rough dramatic seas which is one more 'severe' weather type we get more than the continent, but there's no way of predicting these and it's more likely you wouldn't have one on a holiday
Another point that has already mentioned would be greater daylight hours in summer.

From limited experience I would imagine Britain gets more dry sunny weather, or more 'sunshine and showers' weather than many foreigners would believe, and also more good scenery than many would expect.

[Terminal Moraine]

I suppose it's all down to what you're used to. If you're a resident of Arizona or Western Australia all the hype in the world isn't going to convince you that these islands are anything other than cool, damp and cloudy.
On the other hand if you're visiting from the Aleutian Isles or north west Norway it will appear positively warm and arid.

[Lauren]

No, we're British and as such we like to moan about the weather.

The only problem I can see with our weather is that it is unreliable, season wise. It is often the case, especially recently that our summer seems to appear in Spring and Autumn and our rainy season so to speak, appears in summer.

Other than that our weather isn't 'bad'. We have beautioful hot periods, rainy periods and snow. They just appear at odd times!

[danm]

Lauren, on 16 February 2012 - 13:49 , said:

No, we're British and as such we like to moan about the weather.

The only problem I can see with our weather is that it is unreliable, season wise. It is often the case, especially recently that our summer seems to appear in Spring and Autumn and our rainy season so to speak, appears in summer.

Other than that our weather isn't 'bad'. We have beautioful hot periods, rainy periods and snow. They just appear at odd times!

Yup, I think the unreliability is the biggest problem. People are never going to be able to say, let's go to the UK for Xmas so that we have a white christmas, because you can never guarantee snow. And you can never book an outdoor function in summer weeks or months in advance and be sure that it's going to be sunny. You can just as easily be in a 33c heatwave or have it being 20c and wet and windy.

Edited by danm, 16 February 2012 - 14:01 .

[Coast]

danm, on 16 February 2012 - 14:01 , said:

Yup, I think the unreliability is the biggest problem.

God!!! think how quiet the Model Output Discussion thread would be if it wasn't!!!

[in the vale]

A few years ago I was looking for a graduate to work on a project of mine for 6 months, and I ended up agreeing to employ a girl from South Africa. I interviewed her over the phone and she said she wanted to come to the UK for 6 months to work, and then spend 6 months travelling back home. When she arrived straight from SA (having never left SA before) she almost immediately started going on (in a good natured banter) about the British obsession with the weather - it really is well known around the world. Within a week or so, she declared that she entirely understood why we so obsessed as she never really approciated just how changeable it is. She told us that where she lived, there was sunshine all morning pretty much 365 days each year. If a single little cloud appeared on the horizon towards JoBurg (I think it was) around lunchtime, then it would rain for an hour at around 4pm. If no cloud - no rain. Dead simple. After a few months of being in the UK she found her conversations outside work almost always starting with the weather. She thought it was great that you could start up a conversation with almost anyone if the weather was the subject, and that she thought it had made the Brits into very sociable people. I have read some stuff about how the weather has shaped the Welsh, Scottish, Irish and English into who we all are, and I think there's a real truth to that.

[Eugene]

Quote

For example in the lovely county of Somerset, the driest month is April. And its joint warmest month - with July - is May

I would be very surprised to see May somersets joint warmest month with July, surely August is alot warmer on average for them than May and June warmer even September, May's arent that warm at all on average especially mins.

[Alza]

The distance North from Portsmouth to Aberdeen is similar to that from the North of France down to the South Coast of France - this is reflected in the large variation in weather across the UK. I've known it to be 15°C here whilst its 30°C in London, whilst there have been times in winter where London is seeing 10°C and we have significant snow. I quite enjoy trips to Paris in the summer because the weather is so much warmer than here, yet London has a similar climate to Paris. 20°C is achievable in London whilst its raining, yet up here that is a very respectable temperature!

For example, compare the temperatures in June '08 between London and Newcastle:
http://www.wundergro...hlyHistory.html - average max temp of 17°C, it only reached 20°C three times all month.
http://www.wundergro...hlyHistory.html - average max temp of 20°C, but many days reached 23°C, which felt very hot to some of the wimps up here in Newcastle on the 9th, and it reached 20°C twenty times!

Edited by Alza 2, 16 February 2012 - 14:30 .

[spindrift1980]

robthefool, on 16 February 2012 - 12:45 , said:

In my opinion, I would hate to live in northern England or Scotland weather wise - summers are just too poor, even in contrast to the SE the differences between a few hundred miles can be massive. The winter in these areas usually isn't too much different to other areas, so there are not really any bonuses in living further north if you're looking for better winter weather.

I find this a bit of a peculiar statement to be honest, even leaving aside that there is a significant difference between the number of snow fallying/lying days etc. between southern England and the snowiest parts of Scotland. The presence of much higher ground in Scotland and N England means that it is usually possible during long spells of even the mildest of winters to experience some quite extreme winter conditions, or at least something interesting which gives a taste of winter. If you have legs and lungs you are free to make the most of it, and its not always necessary to climb all that much to experience a taste of it. For example. I've managed walks in snowy places almost every weekend since the beginning of December. At the risk of getting up people's noses, I'm not sure anyone is qualified to comment meaningfully on UK weather until they've experienced winter conditions in the mountains - a whole different level from anything that can be experienced in the lowlands.

It can seem a bit surreal (although perfectly understandable given the population distribution) coming on here at times after having been gazing at mile after mile of snowy hills ( in particular during spells where the upper air isn't particularly cold) and then reading the model forum and other discussions going on about lack of snow and cold, and then getting itself into a state of excitement about a transient fall of a couple of centimetres down south.

Having said all this - If it wasn't for the accessibility of hills and mountains within a shortish drive I would cheerfully admit that my own location is 'below average' UK-wise (to put it kindly) for 'good weather' of warm sunny summers and cold snowy winters. Lots of rain, cool summers, not particularly snowy (although the previous couple of winters were amazing) but nevertheless I couldn't live anywhere with the same weather all the time so I am fairly content (although the cloud and rain and wind can test one's patience at times!)

Also, I can't stand thunderstorms as they are terrifying if you are out on the hills so am happy enough with the relative lack of these!

[Thundery wintry showers]

As for my all-round opinion on the British weather, I think it's all relative. I think there are certainly other parts of the world with climates that I would find preferable, but they make up just a small percventage of the total land mass. I find the unpredictability of the UK climate and ability to get almost any type of weather to be two of the climate's high points, which almost certainly contribute to the number of weather enthusiasts we get in this country. My main criticism is the relative frequency of different types of weather- dry cloudy days are more common than sunshine-and-showers days, the majority of rain is light to moderate and persistent/frontal, and also the high frequency of persistent "close to average temperature" regimes as opposed to the "episodic" type of pattern with alternating northerly/easterly, southerly, westerly and anticyclonic types.

Going back to what Stormmad26 touched upon, Britain's reputation for changeable weather and for "sunshine and showers" is interesting, as I think in the summer half-year our traditional Atlantic frontal progressions give greater day-on-day variability than most of our continental neighbours experience, but also smaller hour-on-hour variability. The scenario of bright sunshine one moment and torrential rain the next is supposed to be characteristically "British" but is actually more typical of unsettled spells in a continental summer. However continental areas are reliant on solar heating for those short sharp convective cloudbursts and in winter our hour-on-hour variability is greater than theirs due to polar maritime incursions as well as occasional dramatic frontal passages.

Central and southern parts of Europe are more reliably warm/hot and sunny than Britain in summer but again it is only relative- even southern parts of France, bar the Mediterranean coastline, can end up with a fortnight of dull weather, chilly breezes and regular frontal rain once in a while. An extreme case occurred in July 2000 when low pressure and fronts were slow moving across most of continental Europe resulting in persistent cool cloudy breezy weather, while frequent ridges of high pressure and a minimal Atlantic influence across western Scotland resulted in Glasgow having about twice as much sunshine as Berlin.

Edited by Thundery wintry showers, 16 February 2012 - 15:02 .

[Alza]

Denver would probably be my favourite climate - it is possible for daytime temperatures of 30°C in the Spring to be followed by an overnight snowstorm, then the temperatures still reaching double figures the next day. Summer would be a bit boring as it is nearly always hot and sunny, but there are quite a few thunderstorms to keep things interesting enough.