634 replies to this topic

[reef]

And mine too. We've had a trend of pretty homogenously mild springs with little variety in recent years. 2007, 2009 and 2011 were the worst. 2010 just escapes because it managed a snow shower on May 11th and had an average March of two halves.

Snowfall has been remarkable by its absence of course, but generally there just hasnt been any 'weather' at all. A revealing statistic here is that 4 out of the last 5 springs have had no lying snow and been sunnier, drier and warmer than average. I can understand why people might enjoy that, as its good usable weather, but from an enthusiast's point of view, what should be the most interesting season for variety has become exceptionally boring! Another interesting statistic is that May didnt manage to reach above 22C in each of those four springs, July didnt reach 25C after three of them and August didnt reach 26C after any of them. A coincidence perhaps, but possibly evidence that long settled springs do eventually break down, often in summer!

[Stormmad26]

I actually found 2011 one of the more interesting spings of recent here, -4C frosts to 17C warmth in March, unusual warmth in April (easily beats 2007 here) and a few thunderstorms (better ones than the few years before that, at last!). Impressive temp anomalies for April and rainfall anomalies too. Though it did lack some things like 'April showers' (but most have recently) or lots of rain, or below average temps apart from Early March. There wasn't any snow either but most seasons don't have everything (this has been lacking from recent springs). May was a bit more uninteresting after thunderstorms on the evening of the 6th though with no proper warm spells here.

Overall of the last 2 years preferred March and April 2011, but May 2010 (apart from the T-storm in May 2011) It could be that I actually don't remember springs before the last few years so much though.

Having heard about spring 1995 though, I'm sure it would come well above the last few years for me too.

Edited by Stormmad26, 22 February 2012 - 07:29 .

[Interitus]

I'm surprised that anyone who has an interest in the UK weather could find last spring boring - even if one prefers changeablility, some of the stats might not be repeated in a lifetime, it was far more significant than cold of December 2010.

[Aaron]

Interitus, on 23 February 2012 - 12:07 , said:

t was far more significant than cold of December 2010.

Absolutely not. April 2011 was significantly warm but it's not weather you can really see or appreciate like a good storm or a huge snowfall, or the rivers freezing up or trees cloaked in frost. It was also bone dry. There was little to talk about, it was useful for outdoors activities which is good but from an enthusiasts point of view, it was boring.

Edited by Aaron, 23 February 2012 - 12:12 .

[Interitus]

Aaron, on 23 February 2012 - 12:12 , said:

Absolutely not. April 2011 was significantly warm but it's not weather you can really see or appreciate like a good storm or a huge snowfall, or the rivers freezing up or trees cloaked in frost. It was also bone dry. There was little to talk about, it was useful for outdoors activities which is good but from an enthusiasts point of view, it was boring.

Equal warmest spring for the past 100 years, equal driest spring, warmest + sunniest April on record. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean there was nothing worth talking about.
And you're going to be waiting a very long time for rivers to be freezing up in April!

[Milhouse]

Trevor Harley from http://www.personal....011_weather.htm says it was his most interesting April so it must have brought some interest to the extreme weather enthusiast.

[Thundery wintry showers]

My assessment of how "interesting" a spring quarter is really depends on the sum of its three constituent months, and by this measure Spring 2011 was a one-month wonder. I certainly found April 2011 interesting- the spell of unusual warmth, hazy sunshine and high pollution levels in the third week particularly sticks out- but March and May 2011, in both Cleadon and Norwich, were characterised by consistent unexceptional warmth and the day-on-day weather was overwhelmingly of the "usable" type, with varying amounts of stratocumulus and some sunny spells. Convective events were also close to non-existent at those locations during March and May. The by-product of this was an exceptional drought- in Norwich the ground was almost desert-like as we headed into early June.

In this sense the most 'boring' spring of recent years was probably 2009 as all three months had an emphasis on consistent unexceptional warmth and not much "weather", although March 2009 in Exeter (where I was at the time) had a couple of notable weather events early to mid month.

Ultimately it all depends on what one defines as 'interesting' but for me an overall lack of variety and notable weather events rather let the springs of 2009 and to a lesser extent 2007, 2010 and 2011 down.

[Aaron]

Interitus, on 23 February 2012 - 12:20 , said:

Equal warmest spring for the past 100 years, equal driest spring, warmest + sunniest April on record. Just because you didn't like it doesn't mean there was nothing worth talking about.
And you're going to be waiting a very long time for rivers to be freezing up in April!

I did like it, it was very pleasant, but lacked any real noticeable weather events you can actually see. Why do you think this forum is so quiet during quiet spells of non-interesting weather? If it was in summer and temperatures were rising to the dizzy heights of July 2006 then it'd be different.

Edited by Aaron, 23 February 2012 - 12:59 .

[Interitus]

Aaron, on 23 February 2012 - 12:58 , said:

I did like it, it was very pleasant, but lacked any real noticeable weather events you can actually see. Why do you think this forum is so quiet during quiet spells of non-interesting weather? If it was in summer and temperatures were rising to the dizzy heights of July 2006 then it'd be different.

It's quiet when all the snow-lovers and heat-seekers aren't here - it's not because the weather isn't interesting, these are the times are when only the real weather enthusiasts remain!

[Alza]

One thing which has been forgotten when everyone talks about how boring the last few springs have been is that cold northerly we had in May 2010 - I had a wet flurry of snow here, and many areas saw maximums in the 5-8 range with overnight frost. Quite cold for May!

Interitus, on 23 February 2012 - 13:03 , said:

It's quiet when all the snow-lovers and heat-seekers aren't here - it's not because the weather isn't interesting, these are the times are when only the real weather enthusiasts remain!

Lol, I tend to post less in times like this as I can't think of as much to say! This year is a little different though as I seem to have more free time now than I've had for at least a year.

[summer blizzard]

March and April 2011 were brilliant but may was very unimpressive which is why it does not rank as my faviourate season.

[Mr_Data]

Interitus, on 23 February 2012 - 12:07 , said:

, it was far more significant than cold of December 2010.

I disagree, warmth has dominated the last two decades, to achieve a spell for that period of the year that was colder than anything that had been reliably recorded, the period late November to Christmas 2010 had a CET of -1.5C is remarkable. We have broken that many warm records recently that to achieve a cold spell of that significance is extremely notable. To me a cold record within a warm period or vice versa is far more notable than a warm record being broken admist a warm period where records are regularly falling. Its logical to assume that it is easier to break a warm record within a warm period and a cold record within a cold period and therefore harder for the counterposition, hence why the counterposition is more notable.

Edited by Mr_Data, 23 February 2012 - 15:43 .

[Interitus]

Mr_Data, on 23 February 2012 - 15:37 , said:

I disagree, warmth has dominated the last two decades, to achieve a spell for that period of the year that was colder than anything that had been reliably recorded, the period late November to Christmas 2010 had a CET of -1.5C is remarkable. We have broken that many warm records recently that to achieve a cold spell of that significance is extremely notable. To me a cold record within a warm period or vice versa is far more notable than a warm record being broken admist a warm period where records are regularly falling. Its logical to assume that it is easier to break a warm record within a warm period and a cold record within a cold period and therefore harder for the counterposition, hence why the counterposition is more notable.

I take your point (though I know there are many posters here who would dispute that we're in a warm period regarding winters), however that cold spell was only a month duration - Spring 2011 was for fine weather as something like winter 1962-63 was for cold, a whole level above December 2010.

Edited by Interitus, 23 February 2012 - 17:55 .

[Aaron]

It was not a whole level above December 2010 for goodness sake!!!!!! People will remember December 2010 for years, the kids of today will tell their grandchildren stories of the snow and the cold.. nobody will remember April 2011 in that way.

Edited by Aaron, 23 February 2012 - 18:08 .

[Interitus]

Well thanks for your tabloid definition of meteorological signifcance, I've been over-thinking this.

Edited by Interitus, 23 February 2012 - 18:18 .

[Thundery wintry showers]

It essentially depends on what measure we're using. It's undeniable that Spring 2011 was remarkable statistically, for its warmth and, in eastern England, for its dryness- the record-breaking mean temperatures and the almost desert-like landscape around Norwich at the end of May reflected this. Whether it outweighs December 2010 is debatable, but I think April 2011 was a match for it.

Those who berate Spring 2011 for being "boring" are primarily relating to the day-to-day and week-to-week weather conditions- April had a fair amount of notable weather in that sense, but March and May were characterised by dryness and consistent unexceptional warmth and not a lot of weather.

Consider a winter quarter like the following:
December- CET 0.7C, rainfall 10% of average, sunshine 40% of average. Characterised by persistent dry cloudy weather with high pressure oscillating between north-eastern France and southern Scandinavia, and temperatures near 1C by day and night. Maxima never higher than 4C and never lower than -1C. No snow bar the odd light flurry near the east coast.
January- a repeat of January 1963.
February- CET 0.5C, rainfall 20% of average, sunshine 40% of average. A grey drizzly start to the month with milder temperatures (5C by day and night) and a thaw of all snow cover, then a return of the cold dry cloudy regime seen during December.

Would this be an interesting winter? Statistically it would be a phenomenal winter, with the drought, low temperatures and lack of sunshine reaching record or near-record levels. However I can't imagine two months of dry cloudy weather, temperatures constantly around 1C and no snow on the ground going down too well- chances are that many of us would remember such a season almost entirely for its re-run of January 1963. Although the example I present here is a bit exaggerated, I think those who call Spring 2011 "boring" are mostly doing so for similar reasons to why some might call the hypothetical winter above "boring".

[Mr_Data]

I don't think extreme spring and autumn months temperature wise are quite as memorable as extreme winter or summer months because with summer and winter months you are approaching the absolute extreme, you don't with spring or autumn months. A month like August 1995, IMO is more memorable than April 2011 because you had higher temperatures, 30+C temperatures, with April 2011 temperatures were in the 20+Cs, significant for the time of the year but completely lost in a month like August 1995 or July 2006.

25C in April, although impressive for the time of the year is a fairly comfortable temperature but a 35C in August is not and therefore sticks in the mind more.

Its the same with a -5C in April notable but a -20C in January.

[jean91]

Not bad today most of a great Southeast of UK had temps nearing those on the Cote d'Azur ( riviera)
Locally 22c in the Southeast in France , not bad considering the cold wave of barely 13 days ago
For my location near Paris a grey grey grey day with a top temp of 12.6c , really compared to the cold wave, well am speechless..................

Edited by jean91, 23 February 2012 - 22:39 .

[jean91]

same map one hour earlier is better :

[Milhouse]

In the context of all Aprils during the last century i would say last April was the most noteworthy. Similiarly in the context of the winter months in the last century i would say that December 2010 was the most noteworthy month since the 80s. Perhaps, due to bucking the trend of endless mild winters, it was the most noteworthy since January/February 1963.

Comparing the two months i would say that December 2010 will stick in peoples minds for longer due to the fact that people never really recall Spring/Autumn months like they do with Winter/Summer. Thats unless a great storm comes along like October 1987.