In The News

[4wd]

I suppose we could put an embargo on them so they remain in abject poverty.

Probably that would thin them down a bit too?

Get rid of the weakest first?

Is that what you want?

I don't see any sensible alternative policy being put forward.

[Methuselah]

Sorry got to disagree with co2 being cause of coral decline the balance of water quality is the main reason for coral decline a slight spike in any chemical (nitrate or nitrite levels phosphates etc)will kill coral ,By all means blame pollution for the death of coral reefs.

Whether one likes it or not, CO₂ (either directly due to acidication, or indirectly via temperature increases and/or bleaching) does put coral under stress; and such has been known for many years, so is nothing new...

But, as you say, there are other problems too. But those other problems have other solutions?

[keithlucky]

I suppose we could put an embargo on them so they remain in abject poverty.

Probably that would thin them down a bit too?

Get rid of the weakest first?

Is that what you want?

I don't see any sensible alternative policy being put forward.

Yes good point thats why slowly but surely Tata steel are closing down production in the UK because why stay in the UK and pay massive green taxes, interesting if the green lobbyists would have the same reaction if they worked for Tata. Edited July 19, 2012 by keithlucky

[BornFromTheVoid]

I suppose we could try investing in renewables 4wd?

But when you have legislators bought and paid for by the hydrocarbon industry (Romney only came out the other day to say nobody knows what's causing global warming and so the US should allow HC companies to drill pretty much everywhere. I bet that advice wasn't from a qualified science advisor!), you're gonna find that support for anything that doesn't line the pockets of those already with power and money isn't going to arrive too easily.

[jethro]

China may be using a great deal more fuel than before but they're also leading the way in developing greener alternatives.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-14201939

[Devonian]

I see it as a hope developing nations might by pass some of the mistakes we made in the past. But, maybe not?

[4wd]

Which mistakes would that be - doing away with most infant mortality, improved health care, reduced birth rate, better education and all those other things they aspire to by increasing their economic activity?

We should encourage the transition to a fully fledged western style economy not try to keep them back in the middle ages where 10 or more children are required to ensure 2 might survive.

[BornFromTheVoid]

You have an odd interpretation of the word "mistakes".

[knocker]

We should encourage the transition to a fully fledged western style economy

Last time I looked western style economy wasn't looking too clever.

[Gray-Wolf]

If you want to apportion 'blame' Four then surely it would be the developed nations that bare the brunt of it and not newly fledging countries? Are we to rob them blind whilst our colonies and then stop them having the wealth we have to add insult to injury???

But who would vote for Four's world where we reduce our standard of living to that of a developing nation whilst they enjoy our standards of living???

[Devonian]

Which mistakes would that be - doing away with most infant mortality, improved health care, reduced birth rate, better education and all those other things they aspire to by increasing their economic activity?

When did I, have I ever (anywhere in any post to any forum), said, implied, hinted, wished for or indicated in any way I want to see high infant mortality, poor healthcare, poor education for anyone anywhere?

We should encourage the transition to a fully fledged western style economy not try to keep them back in the middle ages where 10 or more children are required to ensure 2 might survive.

Agreed. They need efficient, clean, fully fledged market driven economies.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Devonian

[jethro]

Which mistakes would that be - doing away with most infant mortality, improved health care, reduced birth rate, better education and all those other things they aspire to by increasing their economic activity?

We should encourage the transition to a fully fledged western style economy not try to keep them back in the middle ages where 10 or more children are required to ensure 2 might survive.

They introduced the one child policy back in 1978, and they have at least 9 years of compulsory education.

Aspire to a Western style economy? Really? Can't see that it's a fine example of a flourishing, prosperous thing to either follow or aspire to.

[knocker]

They introduced the one child policy back in 1978, and they have at least 9 years of compulsory education.

Aspire to a Western style economy? Really? Can't see that it's a fine example of a flourishing, prosperous thing to either follow or aspire to.

Finished the jam then J?

[jethro]

Finished the jam then J?

Not even started, it's taken all evening to top and tail the damn things. Jam, chutney and pickled Gooseberries tomorrow, that's if I can remember where the stock piles of jam jars are.

[knocker]

Not even started, it's taken all evening to top and tail the damn things. Jam, chutney and pickled Gooseberries tomorrow, that's if I can remember where the stock piles of jam jars are.

Hope they don't have golliwogs on them.

[BornFromTheVoid]

I see this thread has finally descended to the level of jam making... had to happen eventually I suppose.

[jethro]

I see this thread has finally descended to the level of jam making... had to happen eventually I suppose.

Organically grown produce, therefore no nitrate based fertiliser to release CO2. Grown in a deep bed system, no soil turnover to release captured CO2 to the atmosphere. Re-cycled glass containers, again an energy saving and green option. No transportation from pitch to table, making it a zero carbon miles product. No extra energy used in the production as it is made using an existing heat source (Aga oven). No additional flavourings or preservatives. All in all, a healthy eco option, which when viewed from a climate change perspective, if you're looking for jam, it's the way to go if you want to live a sustainable lifestyle.

It's all these little, simple steps that we can all make, which make the difference between having a high or low impact upon the planet

[Gray-Wolf]

Much as I'm always showing little 'uns! Sadly they are being brought up in the land of ready meals and 'never enough time'.....ah well.

[jethro]

I should also add, it's using sugar made from English grown Beet rather than Cane, which has been flown half way around the world.

[4wd]

When did I, have I ever (anywhere in any post to any forum), said, implied, hinted, wished for or indicated in any way I want to see high infant mortality, poor healthcare, poor education for anyone anywhere?

You don't but the post the comment refers to clearly implies a desire to stop developing nations from using fossil fuels.

With notable exceptions of countries like Norway which have ample hydro power, restricting energy availability is a very good way to keep an economy in the slow lane.

I'm reminded of the green influenced planning policies round here.

When asked ''Do you wish to deny the locals use of modern technology like mobile phones?''

The answer is "Of course not we wish to encourage such technology for the benefit of locals and visitors alike"

"So why do you block all applications for masts however discreet?"

"Telecoms masts are against local planning policy and might be detrimental to enjoyment of the landscape therefore we do not permit them"

You couldn't make it up, the two-faced policy of spin and deceit is breathtaking.

[Devonian]

You don't but the post the comment refers to clearly implies a desire to stop developing nations from using fossil fuels.

I'll make this as clear as I can - NO IT DID NOT. I was referring to the smog in the picture. No one (?) wants to breath smog? You reduce smog by using efficient engines, catalytic converters, cleaner generation, public transport, upgrading industries and, yes, laws to curb pollution. But it's silly to imply I want to 'stop' developing nations using fossil fuel. Again I DO NOT.

I use fossil fuels, we all do. That doesn't mean I want a car that pukes clouds of blue smoke, or not burn smokeless fuel, or do any of the things that make smog.

With notable exceptions of countries like Norway which have ample hydro power, restricting energy availability is a very good way to keep an economy in the slow lane.

It's undoubtedly true that much of the growth of the last century had been based on cheaply available energy. I don't think we should be stopped from wondering if that can continue or if that approach can be improved upon.

I'm reminded of the green influenced planning policies round here.

When asked ''Do you wish to deny the locals use of modern technology like mobile phones?''

The answer is "Of course not we wish to encourage such technology for the benefit of locals and visitors alike"

"So why do you block all applications for masts however discreet?"

"Telecoms masts are against local planning policy and might be detrimental to enjoyment of the landscape therefore we do not permit them"

You couldn't make it up, the two-faced policy of spin and deceit is breathtaking.

What have phone masts got to do with this? Fwiw I use a mobile phone as well....

Edited July 20, 2012 by Devonian

[4wd]

Seems like though we know what is expected of us nobody is listening? India is the next of the developing nations to join us 'developed countries in our lust for CO2 emmissions?

This is the post I was referring too.

The phone mast point was just an example of how the greens love to presume to hold the moral high ground then try to keep a low profile when the consequences of their block everything tactics are put to them.

[jethro]

Beware the lightbulbs....

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2176494/Energy-saving-light-bulbs-fry-skin-study-claims.html

[keithlucky]

More evidence to prove CO2 not linked to world temps

Atmospheric CO2 has been rising for years, but global temps are going in the opposite direction! Source:woodfortrees.org (Straight lines drawn in by hand by NTZ).

New CO2 report! Expect the mainstream media to begin their chorus of impending doom and gloom now that the latest annual global CO2 report has been released.

Warmist energy and climate website CO2-Handel reports here that once again global CO2 emissions have increased, reaching a record level in 2012!

Yet CO2 Handel forgets to tell us that global temperature hasn’t risen in almost 15 years

[Gray-Wolf]

http://www.carbonbrief.org/profiles/has-global-warming-stopped

has this to say on the past 15years of global temp records;

"Global temperatures

The data shows that temperatures have been rising since the 1880s. There has been roughly 0.75°C warming since the beginning of the 20th Century. The period 2000-2010 was the hottest decade on record.

There has been a slow-down in the rate of warming over the last decade. Whilst the average temperature rose at about 0.16-0.17 degrees per decade since the late 1970s, the temperature rise through the 2000s has been between 0.05-0.13 degrees per decade. This slow-down has been attributed to natural variability.

The lower end of this estimates comes from the Met Office. The other main datasets which use surface temperature measurements (held by NASA and the NCDC) show greater temperature rise over the last ten years.

The difference may be because the Met Office leaves areas of the Arctic ocean out of their calculations, whilst the other two datasets do not. The rate of Arctic sea ice loss indicates that the Arctic climate is changing rapidly, and would support suggestions that the Met Office method may underestimate temperature rise in the Arctic. Climate skeptics usually ignore the data from the other datasets.

Finally, it's worth pointing a wider point: arguing 'global warming has stopped' based on only the temperature record would be ignoring all of the other indicators of warming.

To support their claim that 'global warming has stopped' climate skeptics cherry-pick a small sample of years from a single dataset. This approach has been labelled 'particularly suspect' by independent statistical experts, and rejected by the scientific bodies which produce the temperature datasets."