35 replies to this topic

[laserguy]

4wd, on 11 June 2010 - 10:09 , said:

When I was younger I was quite keen on most green ideas in particular preservation of threatened environments and avoiding water and air pollution.
About 1998 (a now obviously freakish warm year!) the green groups and media started hyping up global warming with endless stories trying to show every imaginable problem being made worse by global warming.

Most if not all of this seemed to me at the time little more than exaggeration, spin, and sometimes downright lies and the fact these groups I had previously felt respect for had become so manipulative over this one issue has rather turned me against the entire green movement.
I still like my young trees and wildflower meadows though.
But I wouldn't give greenpeace or the 'friends' of the earth the steam of my off my ...

They have become fund gathering obsessed and greedy - this is why they exaggerate every possible peril.
They've become dominated by activist types with a hunger to manipulate evidence to suit their position, and I increasingly don't believe a word they say - in fact I tend to believe the opposite of what they say is far more likely to be near the reality.

A few years ago my firm was approached by a very well known 'Green' organisation ( I point-blank refuse to name them,and the clue is not necessarily in "Green"!!) with a request for us to engrave a fancy plaque with their name - presumably to be displayed proudly in one of their expensive offices somewhere. The plaque itself was made of some rare,endangered Brazilian hardwood. Can you smell,nay,taste the hypocrisy? I remember having a "do" with the boss,I didn't want to be involved in any way out of principle. But that don't pay my bills. You're bang right in what you say,4wd. "Environmentalists,preservationists,greens" - don't make me laugh. I don't know who you gladly turn your hard-earned over to,Dev - but IMO you're being robbed.

[Devonian]

laserguy, on 12 June 2010 - 05:54 , said:

A few years ago my firm was approached by a very well known 'Green' organisation ( I point-blank refuse to name them,and the clue is not necessarily in "Green"!!) with a request for us to engrave a fancy plaque with their name - presumably to be displayed proudly in one of their expensive offices somewhere. The plaque itself was made of some rare,endangered Brazilian hardwood. Can you smell,nay,taste the hypocrisy? I remember having a "do" with the boss,I didn't want to be involved in any way out of principle. But that don't pay my bills. You're bang right in what you say,4wd. "Environmentalists,preservationists,greens" - don't make me laugh. I don't know who you gladly turn your hard-earned over to,Dev - but IMO you're being robbed.

LG, would you care to provide some more details, by PM if you like, to help me establish what happened with the group concerned and act accordingly. Serious allegation need to be investigate - and if you allege I'm being robbed I want you to help me to prove that.

That said, those who had their hard owned over to tip jar in places like WUWT/CA are also being robbed imo.

[Solar Cycles]

laserguy, on 12 June 2010 - 05:54 , said:

A few years ago my firm was approached by a very well known 'Green' organisation ( I point-blank refuse to name them,and the clue is not necessarily in "Green"!!) with a request for us to engrave a fancy plaque with their name - presumably to be displayed proudly in one of their expensive offices somewhere. The plaque itself was made of some rare,endangered Brazilian hardwood. Can you smell,nay,taste the hypocrisy? I remember having a "do" with the boss,I didn't want to be involved in any way out of principle. But that don't pay my bills. You're bang right in what you say,4wd. "Environmentalists,preservationists,greens" - don't make me laugh. I don't know who you gladly turn your hard-earned over to,Dev - but IMO you're being robbed.

20 years ago the the green movement did a fantastic job, run by people who actually cared more about the environment, than scoring political goals. Fast forward to the here and now, and what we have now is a movement run by eco-terrorist, whose only prime concern is satisfying their own political agendas.

[Devonian]

Solar Cycles, on 12 June 2010 - 08:11 , said:

20 years ago the the green movement did a fantastic job, run by people who actually cared more about the environment, than scoring political goals. Fast forward to the here and now, and what we have now is a movement run by eco-terrorist, whose only prime concern is satisfying their own political agendas.

Bit like blogs like WUWT then - except they're right wing fanatics.

Or are we both simply throwing mud?

Edited by Devonian, 12 June 2010 - 08:15 .

[Solar Cycles]

Devonian, on 12 June 2010 - 08:14 , said:

Bit like blogs like WUWT then - except they're right wing fanatics.

Or are we both simply throwing mud?

Not at all Dev, simply ask the former head of greenpeace his views. He stated more or less what I just said!

[Devonian]

Solar Cycles, on 12 June 2010 - 08:16 , said:

Not at all Dev, simply ask the former head of greenpeace his views. He stated more or less what I just said!

Again, most climate sceptic blogs out there are run by right wing, often extremist right wing, political activists or agitators.

SC, yesterday it was alleged here in this thread that Greenpeace lie. I objected but the post was allowed as being opinion. I will not continue to bite my lip when such opinion is expressed I will from now on express similar opinion about sceptics back.

Edited by Devonian, 12 June 2010 - 08:23 .

[Solar Cycles]

Devonian, on 12 June 2010 - 08:23 , said:

Again, most climate sceptic blogs out there are run by right wing, often extremist right wing, political activists or agitators.

SC, yesterday it was alleged here in this thread that Greenpeace lie. I objected but the post was allowed as being opinion. I will not continue to bite my lip when such opinion is expressed I will from now on express similar opinion about sceptics back.

Dev I 'm afraid they do, there is an article I have somewhere regarding this. It was of course about the effects of AGW ( what a surprise ). Patrick Moore was a co founder of greenpeace, and now he as to run the gauntlet of hate directed at him by those so called peace lovers, just because he dares to speak out against AGW!

Edited by Solar Cycles, 12 June 2010 - 08:31 .

[noggin]

I started this thread as a place to follow what was, to me, a growing number of individuals and groups who are feeling brave enough to speak out against what has, in the past, been a general acceptance of man-made global warming.

But, alas, it has, like just about every other thread, degenerated into arguments.

Doesn't take long, does it?

[Devonian]

Solar Cycles, on 12 June 2010 - 08:30 , said:

Dev I 'm afraid they do, there is an article I have somewhere regarding this. It was of course about the effects of AGW ( what a surprise ). Patrick Moore was a co founder of greenpeace, and now he as to run the gauntlet of hate directed at him by those so called peace lovers, just because he dares to speak out against AGW!

Try being Michael Mann or Phil Jones or Ben Santer - two of those fine scientists have received death threats from anti AGW extremists!

[badboy657]

noggin, on 12 June 2010 - 08:58 , said:

I started this thread as a place to follow what was, to me, a growing number of individuals and groups who are feeling brave enough to speak out against what has, in the past, been a general acceptance of man-made global warming.

But, alas, it has, like just about every other thread, degenerated into arguments.

Doesn't take long, does it?

hey noggin i understand where your coming from and theres some good arguements coming from both sides of the fence now and lots of very good inputs,
but my feelings are straight up like this warming has happened,
perhapes a lil man made.

but most normal cycles that have happened in the past and will happen in the future and will continue even when its a barron planet.

look at mars infact look at all the planets most have a climate and cycles we are no different.

cooling is my thinking but i was unsure in the late 90s and early 2000s but its clear in my mind that things are shifting again.
but over all i think its wait and see and climate science is still in its early days look at the sun thats caught nasa by suprise ipcc aswell have not seen what they expected,
i really do think theres much more to study inregards to climate science its worth remembering that not everything on earth follows a script.

Edited by badboy657, 12 June 2010 - 09:14 .

[Devonian]

noggin, on 12 June 2010 - 08:58 , said:

I started this thread as a place to follow what was, to me, a growing number of individuals and groups who are feeling brave enough to speak out against what has, in the past, been a general acceptance of man-made global warming.

But, alas, it has, like just about every other thread, degenerated into arguments.

Doesn't take long, does it?

Noggin, one poster in this thread expressed the opinion that green groups are 'sometimes downright liars'. I'm a member of Greenpeace, FoE and several other 'green groups' and I tell you they are not 'sometimes downright liars'.

But, the precedent is set.

If members here can call organisations lairs then so can I and I will fight fire with fire until this is sorted and we all pay respect to each other by not calling organisation we approve of, be they FoE Greenpeace, WUWT or CA lairs or any other name!

I AM the last person who like name calling but I will, no longer, let such allegations go by unanswered back. Sorry - but I've had enough of it!

Edited by Devonian, 12 June 2010 - 09:25 .

[badboy657]

Solar Cycles, on 12 June 2010 - 08:30 , said:

Dev I 'm afraid they do, there is an article I have somewhere regarding this. It was of course about the effects of AGW ( what a surprise ). Patrick Moore was a co founder of greenpeace, and now he as to run the gauntlet of hate directed at him by those so called peace lovers, just because he dares to speak out against AGW!

partrick moore is my dads best friend they grew up in sussex and yes hes a very clever man and is against it.

[Devonian]

badboy657, on 12 June 2010 - 09:19 , said:

partrick moore is my dads best friend they grew up in sussex and yes hes a very clever man and is against it.

The wrong Patrick Moore I think

Edited by Devonian, 12 June 2010 - 09:24 .

[jethro]

And I've had enough too.

Whilst folk on here continue to take criticisms of organisations as personal accusations against them, there will continue to be problems.

Stop hijacking this thread, bicker in private if you wish but do not participate in an endless tit for tat on here.

[badboy657]

Devonian, on 12 June 2010 - 09:23 , said:

The wrong Patrick Moore I think

lmfao yeah your right im on about the sky at night fella but hes against it aswell lol.
but i do feel rather silly hehe.

[Solar Cycles]

noggin, on 12 June 2010 - 08:58 , said:

I started this thread as a place to follow what was, to me, a growing number of individuals and groups who are feeling brave enough to speak out against what has, in the past, been a general acceptance of man-made global warming.

But, alas, it has, like just about every other thread, degenerated into arguments.

Doesn't take long, does it?

Sorry noggin.

Devonian, on 12 June 2010 - 09:12 , said:

Try being Michael Mann or Phil Jones or Ben Santer - two of those fine scientists have received death threats from anti AGW extremists!

Dearv Dear this thread is going down the plug hole now!