Apparently no wrong doing.
http://news.bbc.co.u...ech/8618024.stm
Update On Climate Gate
Started by The PIT, Apr 15 2010 08:06
21 replies to this topic
#1
The PIT
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:06
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#2
Gray-Wolf
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 08:58
But there was! Some baddies robbed information from a computer they had no right to and then some right wing ,oil agenda driven, bloggers fibbed and twisted it into a major story to try and give the science a bad name.
They deserve the media generated backlash that Karma says they're owed........Esp. with the record global temps at the moment showing how far we have messed with our climate (unless it's all the 'cold drivers' making it warm......lol).
They deserve the media generated backlash that Karma says they're owed........Esp. with the record global temps at the moment showing how far we have messed with our climate (unless it's all the 'cold drivers' making it warm......lol).
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#3
badboy657
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:11
cooling planet is what i hope for something different than heat .
something new for the media to report on other than global warming.
something new for the media to report on other than global warming.
#4
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 09:20
badboy657, on 15 April 2010 - 09:11 , said:
D'ya know bb ,even back in the old BBC days I'd told them that low solar activity meant more H.P. systems for us and colder winters and I was continually pooh, poohed. I'd gleaned the 'statistical info' from somewhere but could never remember where!!! High solar more L.P.'s over the U.K. , Low solar, More H.P. systems over the UK. Glad I've been vindicated after all this time!!! All the folk who used to be on the Beeb may remember me mooting such over the last solar min.
Like this winter though we may be cold but the majority of the world is toastie.
I've also heard it mooted that the UK will be least impacted by the ravages of AGW, being on the Atlantic coast, but this doesn't help me whilst we're getting drenched and Rekyavik is 72c and Europe is mid drought.........why can't it just shift 300 miles east????
Edited by Gray-Wolf, 15 April 2010 - 09:21 .
KOYAANISQATSI
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
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ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
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#5
The PIT
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 10:50
GW you can't say that. Warmists say there's no link between sun activity and the world climate.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
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#6
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 12:14
The PIT, on 15 April 2010 - 10:50 , said:
GW you can't say that. Warmists say there's no link between sun activity and the world climate.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
No Pit.
The science says that the amount of influence that the sun gives is piffling compared to the amount of heat that needs explaining and that ,to date, the only way to account for the extra heat is by using the human influence over the planet (land use change, hydrology and GHG's etc) not that "the sun has no impact".
As the beeb article (and this past winter) shows us this a 'localised effect' that just blights small areas and does not impact global warming.
You could (well I do) go so far as to say it is a horrid way of milding the Arctic over winter (as we saw this past winter).
KOYAANISQATSI
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
#7
Optimus Prime
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 13:56
Well that's cleared that up then.
May to the 6th
Mean Max 11.5c (-6.0c)
Mean Min 7.3c (-0.6c)
Mean 9.4c (-3.3c)
(Reference period 2004-2011)
Mean Max 11.5c (-6.0c)
Mean Min 7.3c (-0.6c)
Mean 9.4c (-3.3c)
(Reference period 2004-2011)
#8
stewfox
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 14:09
The PIT, on 15 April 2010 - 08:06 , said:
Lord Oxburgh is currently president of the Carbon Capture and Storage Association and chairman of wind energy firm Falck Renewables, thankfully his shares are safe
.Why not have an oil magnet in the chair , you couldn't make it up
#9
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 14:17
The PIT, on 15 April 2010 - 10:50 , said:
GW you can't say that. Warmists say there's no link between sun activity and the world climate.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
Did the baddies nick the data or was left open for all by accident. There hasn't been any prosecutions by the plods.
#10
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 14:49
Does anybody think it strange that so many Pro-AGWers were declaiming the hysteria of skeptics after the CRU leak, and now those self-safe pros, having been "vindicated", are lashing out with just as much hysteria at the skeptics?
As for the Sun...well, everybody here knows my views on that particular subject, but it's worth pointing out that the scientists who found a link between low solar activity and a colder CET have not described a fundamental mechanism for the effect...
CB
As for the Sun...well, everybody here knows my views on that particular subject, but it's worth pointing out that the scientists who found a link between low solar activity and a colder CET have not described a fundamental mechanism for the effect...
CB
Hoping, Waiting, Praying that 2011 is a better year!
I said something similar last year
#11
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 15:08
stewfox, on 15 April 2010 - 14:09 , said:
Lord Oxburgh is currently president of the Carbon Capture and Storage Association and chairman of wind energy firm Falck Renewables, thankfully his shares are safe .
Why not have an oil magnet in the chair , you couldn't make it up
.Why not have an oil magnet in the chair , you couldn't make it up
Well that was one of the problems with the enquiry. No sceptical scientists on-board. Then I suppose if there were sceptics on board they would never have been a report as there would never have been any agreement.
However the report did shift some of the blame onto the IPCC for misrepresenting the data which I feel is a bit crass to be honest.
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#12
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 17:11
I think, C-Bob , when the jury's verdict is in is the right time to point fingers and not before.
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
KOYAANISQATSI
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
#13
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 17:16
I'm surprised how hushed it has been over the reports.
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#14
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 17:36
Gray-Wolf, on 15 April 2010 - 17:11 , said:
I think, C-Bob , when the jury's verdict is in is the right time to point fingers and not before.
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
I'm not sure there's any need to point any fingers at all, but maybe that's just me...
CB
Hoping, Waiting, Praying that 2011 is a better year!
I said something similar last year
#15
jethro
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Posted 15 April 2010 - 18:24
No it's not just you Rob. quite agree there's no need to point fingers, now, or in any part of the climate debate.
There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact.
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#16 North Sea Snow Convection (guest)
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 08:56
Gray-Wolf, on 15 April 2010 - 17:11 , said:
I think, C-Bob , when the jury's verdict is in is the right time to point fingers and not before.
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
Had the 'skeptics' kept 'hush' until today there would be no 'bullets' lying around to be fired off now would there?
For my part I plead human nature and being a bad example of a human being........work in progress kinda thing......but ,as Comic Book Guy once hollered at the moment of his death " I regret nothing......"
No-one should be pointing fingers. There is a difference between examining and testing theory and supposition, and cynical attempts to undermine scientific research without reasonable recourse. Maybe too many AGW proponents rather arrogantly have too much of a chip on their shoulder about having their scientific hypothesis and methodology questioned? It is a good job that an enquiry was launched in terms of the 'climate gate'. No sceptic should have 'hushed' as you put it. Without sceptics and questioning then the advance of the science is imperiled and risks advancing up a futile cul de sac.
Also, if , afterall, there is innocence in the research then why do people like you still up the ante in the wake of the outcome of the enquiry by speaking in terms of 'pointing fingers'? Afterall, if there is/was nothing to hide then there is no need for your side to point fingers is there?
Might be as well to start to see the difference between rigourous questioning to test the strength of scientific theory and methodology and deliberate attempts to provoke trouble in terms of bringing that theory down without any valid reason to do so. The initial doubts expressed by sceptics which have been acted upon in terms of the enquiry have served good purpose and in the light of the outcome should be univerasally welcomed whichever side of the scientific divide one comes from.
But additionally,worth remembering that just because the methodology of the research has not been found wanting in anyway in terms of the enquiry - it still does not prove AGW. It just means that the methods involved in researching the theory are innocent.
As a sceptic of AGW I am pleased at the result of the enquiry. But it doesn't validate any smugness on the part of any AGW proponents either, or critigue of finger pointing as some manifestation of point scoring because the sceptic calls for enquiry have been satisfied with no mal practice found attached.
#17
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Posted 16 April 2010 - 09:22
Being skeptical about the science is fine and that is what some people of NETW did when the allegations came to light.
However there were also a great many posts saying, how can we trust the scientists now, what a load of rubbish AGW is, we can't believe the temperature data sets any more etc etc.
A few people, and even few skeptics said, "wait on, lets see what the enquries finally find first before we start judging people".
Now both enquires have pretty much cleared CRU on science grounds.
The treatment of the scientists in question by certain skeptics was in the light of these finding not just tasteless and wrong but utterly unacceptable and dispicable. I see very few of these skeptics giving an apology.
By all means be skeptical of the science, but generally the attacks on the CRU where anything but being about good skeptical reviews of the science, that has been left to the inquires.
However there were also a great many posts saying, how can we trust the scientists now, what a load of rubbish AGW is, we can't believe the temperature data sets any more etc etc.
A few people, and even few skeptics said, "wait on, lets see what the enquries finally find first before we start judging people".
Now both enquires have pretty much cleared CRU on science grounds.
The treatment of the scientists in question by certain skeptics was in the light of these finding not just tasteless and wrong but utterly unacceptable and dispicable. I see very few of these skeptics giving an apology.
By all means be skeptical of the science, but generally the attacks on the CRU where anything but being about good skeptical reviews of the science, that has been left to the inquires.
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#18
SP1986
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Posted 09 May 2010 - 15:45
I'd have to criticise AGW researchers if they genuinely thought the solar cycles had no influence of the climate.. afterall it is possible to have AGW and natural forcing, surely! I just think some expectations of AGW are perhaps overinflated!
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#19
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Posted 10 May 2010 - 09:18
I think the media has a tendency to 'skew' certain areas of AGW unfairly weighting areas of our impact as though they are the be all and end all.
I feel when we compare 'human influence' to 'natural forces' our effects are small. Sadly, if the system is finely balanced in some areas this 'small' added extra is enough to upset that balance and bring about a domino effect across all of the other 'balanced systems.
If we look at GHG's in isolation we have had an impact over the past 150yrs but ,should we believe the literature, this is nothing when compared to what 'natural forces' can add to the system if our impacts lead the carbon cycle to it's 'warm climate' setting (permafrost melt, ocean sink failure, desertification/drying of lands)
I feel when we compare 'human influence' to 'natural forces' our effects are small. Sadly, if the system is finely balanced in some areas this 'small' added extra is enough to upset that balance and bring about a domino effect across all of the other 'balanced systems.
If we look at GHG's in isolation we have had an impact over the past 150yrs but ,should we believe the literature, this is nothing when compared to what 'natural forces' can add to the system if our impacts lead the carbon cycle to it's 'warm climate' setting (permafrost melt, ocean sink failure, desertification/drying of lands)
KOYAANISQATSI
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
ko.yaa.nis.katsi (from the Hopi language), n. 1. crazy life. 2. life in turmoil. 3. life disintegrating. 4. life out of balance. 5. a state of life that calls for another way of living.
VIRESCIT VULNERE VIRTUS
#20
songster
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Posted 10 May 2010 - 10:59
Precisely. The global climate appears to have several quasi-stable states. Off the top of my head, I can list at least four: snowball Earth, Ice Age, temperate interglacial and hothouse. These respectively have: total ice cover, large ice caps, small ice caps, no ice caps. Currently we are in the temperate interglacial state. Any or all of the above climates (except maybe snowball Earth) are likely to be compatible with human life and advanced civilisation. The process of changing from one state to another is very likely to disrupt human civilisation and may even cause a complete breakdown back to hunter-gatherer levels.
As such, we really should do all we can to avoid pushing ourselves towards the tipping points that cause climate transitions. Since the details of these are unknown, extreme caution in adding or removing any particular forcing (e.g. GHGs, deforestation) is advisable.
As such, we really should do all we can to avoid pushing ourselves towards the tipping points that cause climate transitions. Since the details of these are unknown, extreme caution in adding or removing any particular forcing (e.g. GHGs, deforestation) is advisable.
